So, as I was saying...

Never having written a succesful screen play (or even an unsuccesful one) I still have to ask - WHY ISN’T THIS SERIES BETTER? I work to get myself psyched up for each episode and about 10 minutes into any given one I start wondering “Gee, I wonder what they’re talking about over at The Weather Channel? Maybe they are running their 9 thousandth show about tornado chasers.”

Probably it is just me, but the avatars seem so lame. (Now, having Zoe in the U 87 - or whatever it is - sounds like a WW II German sub - that has possibilities - like providing the impetus for the rising up of the Cylons, their belief in a single God and the and start of the first war. Oh yeah, and - somehow - the entrance of her father into the Cylon camp - and those of you with long memories know where I am heading from there.)

What ever happened to the opportunity to explore the unanswered questions from BSG - like who were the Lords of Kobol really - and how does the Lord, who placed himself above all others, fit into the worshipers of the one - or whatever they call themselves? (I probably was watching TWC at the time - that Jim Cantori sure is in shape - I wonder if he uses … never mind.)

And without getting into specifics - some of the casting. Sheesh.

In sum - I WANT (demand) MORE TIE INS TO THE BSG “MYSTERIES”. Maybe part of the problem is that, unlike BSG, we know where Caprica is going to end - we just don’t know (care?) how it gets there.

(I’ll concede that “Ghosts in the Machine” appeared to set some things on course. Appeared to. Depending on who/what the Titans were.)

I hate to be the one with bad news here - but I really don’t think you are going to get what you are looking for. It was my understanding that their (RDM and DE) intention was never to “tie directly” in to BSG. Many of your questions are probably not going to be answered and I doubt we’ll get a series finaly that leads directly into the BSG mini-series.

I for one am very pleased that we get to see William Adama as a child - and maybe get to see what made him become the man we knew in Battlestar. I’m excited to see what caused the rift between Bill and his father (which I believe we are seeing). I’m excited to see how the cylons came to be and what caused them to rebel (Zoe getting fed up with being treated like a slave???), how and why they sought to create flesh bodies (Zoe wants to be alive and human again???), how the centurians gave the “One True God” idea to the Final Five and then the other 7 (Again, Zoe??).

First off, welcome back Old Timer!! Good to hear from you again.

To be honest, my approach to Caprica has been to accept the series on its own. It lives in the BSG universe which I find intriguing but I’m not really hoping for answers to the BSG questions. As much as I would love to know who the Lords of Kobol were, etc. I’m not sure it will be addressed in Caprica and I don’t think I want it to. We’re only 9 episodes in and I am really into the characters and the storyline apart from anything that has happened in BSG.

It’s fun to theorize about where Daniel, Zoe, and Tamara might be headed in regard to the Cylon but I’m more intrigued by what’s happening on the show. The inter-personal struggles between characters are the main engine and they’re wonderful. The story needs to get its legs but I’m onboard.

Old Timer! woot!

But then I wonder… where did Zoe’s consciousness go? She is so very Zoe… does she morph into something else? Is her consciousness lost along the way? The Clarice storyline obsession with a virtual afterlife is really very interesting, too - and ties into all kinds of debates as to who/what has a soul and what exactly that might mean

That’s OK - I can handle the truth. And, for the record, I did not want or expect Caprica to be BSG Jr. It’s just that the creators have conjured up a fascinating society with tantalizing mysteries. I had hoped to see some nibbling away at those questions - again not a “there, this is the answer to the whole shebang”. Some of that might happen - yet - assuming the episodes keep coming. (That may be a pretty big assumption.)

The intriguing questions that you pose - all possibly involving Zoe - point out a potential weak spot in the whole enterprise. In theory - very interesting and thought provoking. In reality - perhaps too much for the Zoe character (and actress) to carry?

In any event, we have a real “God” ought there in the BSG universe. Learned that from the grand finale of BSG. And angels, of a sort. Have we seen any signs of “his” hand (God appears to be masculine) in the Caprica story line?

I hope they’ll deal more with that in the next season. Even with just Zoe, it’s kind of fascinating to see the difference between Zoebot and the actual Zoe before she died. Clearly she’s much more aggressive than before (and Lacey’s reaction to the demands of Zoebot, who’s still her best friend, but also isn’t, and it’s great to watch Lacey deal with that), and you kind of wonder if the Zoebot we know now would have been the one detonating the bomb on the train if she was given a chance to, instead of the Zoe before who was actually not a part of the bomb plan.

There’s still so much to explore - like why Zoebot is so ambivalent towards Clarice purely on a hunch that predeath Zoe didn’t tell Clarice about anything - in which case, who is the person who organized predeath Zoe’s ‘move to Geminon/blown up to pieces’?

But anyway, I’m actually glad that Caprica isn’t a show that simply exists to explain the mysteries of BSG (some questions are probably better left unanswered), but I love seeing them explore the hows that lead to what we know the world to be decades later in BSG. The ‘soap opera’ things they are exploring - death and grief (which lead to the birth of Zoebot), power (in Daniel’s case, the possibility of losing his company led to him basically giving humans the reason to develop a whole line of cylon slaves that we know to lead into the end of their worlds, or what the power struggles in the factions of STO mean), corruption (what does it mean when the birth of a cylon basically came from a malfunctioning stolen chip that people were killed for? And only worked when dead Zoe’s avatar was imported into the cylon? Does it mean that the Larrys all contain a part of a dead person? How is that going to matter in the big scheme of things?), religion (How does the STO become the religion of the cylons? How does the notion of everlasting life in the vworld become actuality in cylons and their rebirthing hubs?), father-daughter relationships (as a reflection to just how personal the relationship between the cylons and the humans; perhaps a reason why the Larrys, as much hatred they had for the humans for enslaving them, would choose to make cylons into humanoid form, as well as the frakked up mother-son relationship between Ellen and Cavil), etc. There’s a lot (maybe too much) they’re playing with in Caprica, and while it doesn’t specifically answer all the questions unanswered in BSG, there are enough associations and parallels for me to enjoy what they’re unfolding in Caprica that does relate to BSG. My problems with Caprica and why it’s not a better show has little to do with the stories they want to explore, but has much more to do with structuring and pacing problems with certain story arcs. Which aren’t little problems, but if they can figure how to tell the story better next season, Caprica would be a really kickass show.

Great to have you back Old Timer!

I do not think many of the “big questions” will be addressed in Caprica, but I do think we may learn some of the mysteries about the Cylon.


Thanks. Good to be back.

I think coco’s email above is spot on (don’t let it go to your head) about Carpica.

And, you know, when I think about it the ONE BSG question that I hoped to have answered really was addressed - at the very end of the finale - and it will be interesting to see what, if any, implications the existence of “god” has in Caprica.

The question, of course, is “what’s the deal” with the one Lord (god), who wished to be placed above the others (aka - the one whose name must not be spoken) - you know, the Lord, who was instrumental in the religion of the Cylons, who left Kobol.

Old Pretty Hair gave us the answer - or at least as much of an answer as one can expect when it comes to the spiritual. The line - as all will recall - is during the Baltar/Six conversation in Times Square - “he doesn’t like that name” (god).

I pretty sure RM was telling “us” that the one who doesn’t like that name and the one whose name must not be spoken are one and the same. If so, nicely played and a wonderful source for endless speculation.

Let’s not forget that humans are interested in an everlasting life too in Caprica. That’s what Clarice is trying to do for the STO. So the one God idea transcends human/cylon, its present as an idea now. I am curious how/why that came to be since the Gods are so dominate in Colonial society.

I’m not enjoying this show as much as I’d like. It’s not an instant love affair like I had with Chuck or BBT, but I’m willing to stick with it because I am interested in what happens to these characters. I have to believe that Daniel will figure out how to get Zoe out of the robot and still produce AI, we know that cylons will be successfully mass-produced, though maybe it won’t be but Greystone Enterprises.

I want to rant on the new TV model of 13 episodes and then halting new material. I’m sick of it and everyone’s doing it now.

Wow, thanks! WOO! (see, it’s already getting to my head.) :smiley: Thanks for just reading that long thing. :smiley:

That’s the thing about Caprica - it’s not a perfect show by any means, or even a relatively perfect show, yet it’s the type of show that makes me want to write about it and discuss it. While Chuck and BBT are great shows, and I never miss an episode of either one - I’m not compelled to discuss them, because they are - to their strengths - much, much less complicated than the world of Caprica, and deliver a very different viewing experience. (With good reason. Hm. I wonder how Caprica would have been if it was a full blown sitcom instead of a drama? :smiley: On a tangent, have there ever been a 30 minute fullblown sci fi sitcom ever? There must be, but I can’t think of any) .

I think 13 is do-able as a season (look at The Wire, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, or any number of cable shows that kicks ass), but Caprica didn’t even get that many, right? It got 9 episodes (plus the double length pilot). I think they could have done a lot more- not to the degree it’ll fix everything wrong, but it would have helped - with just 3 more episodes this season.

I can’t think about that epilogue scene without shuddering just a bit. After all this time, I still…really hated that scene. :smiley: But I can see why Ron Moore was hesitant to name him just to avoid the whole “It’s Christianity/Buddhism/Muslim/whatever religion with that god’s name after all!” argument.

Here ya go.

And yes it was a full blown sci fi comedy.

Lord I’m showing my age by remembering and watching it. ACK!

Yeah, ditto:

Geez Pike, between you, me and talos. That’s one big quotefest we will have if I ever get to a meetup. (Still trying to get to IM2 somehow):smiley:

What does it say about me, that I watched these shows when they first aired? I also got the “Quark” DVD set.

Thanks, Hive Mind.

Quark (looks intriguing - worth checking out? I see Amazon has it) is entirely new for me, but I can’t believe I forgot about Mork and Mindy! Thanks for the reminder. Come to think of it, I guess Alf is technically a SF comedy too.

Huh. Perhaps this is why there isn’t a half hour sci fi comedy on tv in years. :smiley:

Futurama. And the dozens of loveable aliens among us shows, starting with My Favorite Martian.

Welcome back Old Timer, I have really missed reading your posts.

I watch Caprica. It’s interesting. It certainly doesn’t grip me the way BSG did. Yes, I was hoping in the beginning to have some questions answered, but I no longer hold out hope for that. I’m trying to enjoy the series for what it is.

Caprica is ok. It’s just when one thinks of BSG in connection to it, Caprica lack the genius, the characters and the rip-roaring damn good story.

I know I’ll continue to enjoy Caprica.

PS I’ve been away from the Forum awhile.

The first season of Caprica was just… uneven. I was (and am) hoping for more from it. While I certainly wouldn’t say it was bad, I would say that it seemed as if it didn’t really know where it wanted to go.

I don’t know. I really enjoyed it and thought it was very good once I got around to see it. It’s just so different from BSG! I think, largely, the writers have been very successful at creating a compelling storyline with sufficient dramatic tension within the context of a prequel.

I do think it’s maybe too heady a show. I appreciate the lofty subjects, but it makes for some slooooooow viewing and not always compelling television. I just don’t see Caprica lasting too long if this is the case.

You do get some more background information from the commentary podcasts that they did indeed change the direction and development of a number of the characters and plot. Also, technically we are only half way through season 1 as the network imposed a midseason hiatus on the show. It does seem that even though we are halfway through the episode count, the producers of the show don’t feel the hiatus landed at a very natural break. I am looking forward to it continuing though as I think the subsequent episodes are already in the bag…