Silence in the Library / Forest of the Dead

I just re-watched these episodes/ showed them to my 8 yr. old for the first time. Wow…I’d like to say I remembered how good they were, and I always said that I did, but watching them again, I was just blown away. The chemistry between Alex Kingston’s character and David Tennant’s doctor…amazing! Some of the effects from the newer sonic screwdriver were a bit cheesy to be sure, but everything else was almost a storytelling masterpiece from an emotional perspective. While I warned my son that he might find the show a bit scary, he kept up a fairly brave front, so we’ll see how it goes after the sun goes down tonight.

One thing is for sure…watching David Tennant makes me feel wistful. I miss him already and he’s not even gone. That is not to say that I won’t give the new guy a fair shake. I’m quite excited to see what he will do with the Doctor and what will be written for him. I will miss the 10th Doctor so, so much, though.

I really enjoyed these, too… and will be interested to hear if your son found them too scary.

I too already miss David Tennant. Matt Smith better not be a sucky Doctor, or I’ll be upset.

I personally have no love of these episodes, probably because I’m not a big fan of Kingston since ER, especially River’s continual insistence that “her Doctor” was capable of amazing things, he was fascinating and that she had some special connection to him no normal companion did, whatever she whispered in his ear notwithstanding. Also, unless River reappears again her automatic recognization of Tenant’s Doctor becomes a niggling continuity issue down the line. I’m not saying it can’t be resolved, I’m just saying it’s unnecessary. Not that the episodes weren’t good, the mystery of the missing people and the psychology of the computer were cool, but the chemistry you enjoyed killed it for me, I just found her annoying and a poor substitute for Donna.

On that note, watching Catherine Tate act in a way that was emotionally deep, compared to her own show that is, was a pleasant change of pace.

My wife tolerates my sci-fi addicition, but she loves these two episodes of Doctor Who.

Agreed. Her character of Donna was like the real version of the characters on her show; the over-the-top and annoying is there, but it’s just a cover-up for a sense of extreme inadequacy and deep emotions that she’s afraid to express.

And I mostly agree about River Song…but that ending? With the Doctor snapping his fingers and the TARDIS responding? Totally made my heart skip a beat. Tennant’s Doctor will be much missed.

I have to echo the sentiments of Keara and MerryK. I just finished a rewatch of the four recent series and the Christmas specials and I already miss David Tennant.

Colonel Forte - I agree, I thought this opened the door for some issues with continuity, but one way they can resolve this is to have the 2009 specials cover a wider range of time than a single year. Thoughts?

Well, as I said, while the continuity issues could be a problem, they shouldn’t be too hard to resolve. I don’t imagine the 2009 specials will play with time too much simply because going back 40 years the show has always been pretty much running parrallel to real-time (the companions are always from and returned to “present day”). However they intend to resolve them is fine with me really, although, being that I don’t care for the character much were the continuity issues largely ignored, which is just as often the case, I’d be comfortable with that as well.

I have to agree with you Merry K about the finger snapping, that was awesome. I don’t mind introducing a new character who might help to develop the Doctor’s character. What made her so special compared to any of the companions we’ve encountered since the show was brought back? Without getting too wordy, where she considered herself to be the Doctor’s “lover” I saw her as someone with a complex. He wasn’t still with her anymore, that much was clear, so he probably moved on like he always does and she convinced herself she shared something more with him, as I said, regardless of whatever she whispered in his ear.

The line that killed it for me:
Doctor: “I am the Doctor!”
River: “Not yet.”

He’s over 900 years old. She’s merely a snapshot of his life.

I loved these shows, though my kids were scared silly by the first episode. Moffat has written the two best “non companion” companions of NuWho – Sally Sparrow and River Song. He obviously likes to play with timey wimey things as well since both this story and Blink have moments where the Doctor is faced with his future. I had heard that Moffat intended a second show with River, but that had to be cancelled when Tennant resigned.

I think River obviously only knew the 10th doctor. We will never know what she whispered to him, but it obviously shocked him. Was this surprise due to her saying something like “I’m your wife” or “I know your real name?”. Who knows. It doesn’t really matter, it was the result that was obvious.

Did the Doctor take River as a lover? Was he watching the death of a true love? Or has he gone through this cycle before and this time used his Time Lord mojo to save a woman he really admired – to end the story happily so “no one dies”? There is some evidence here. He has planted certain cues in River that would/should give him the means to save the group at the end.

Image this. The first time around he is called to the library by a friend (much as Boe did) who he does not recognize. He tries to sacrifice himself to save the group (in depressive moods he seems more than willing to do this) only to be hoodwinked by River – who does the deed and ends her life. THEN, he meets River for HER first time.

Was this story just about the Doctor changing the time line to save someone? He would plant clues and devices with River to give himself the needed kick in the pants at the appointed time.

Were they lovers? Who knows, though it seems likely. And if they were lovers, I doubt it was due so much to River’s wonderful personality (though it was) and more to the fact that the Doctor knew he could never hurt or disappoint her. He would never abandon her and he already knew when she would die as he had witnessed it.

As for continuity, we don’t see every moment of the Doctor’s life. We never saw the adventure he and Martha were on when the stone angels took them, we never saw the adventure they were on as they ran past Sally. We didn’t see the adventure the doctor was on in the forest memory scene from the Agatha Christie Wasp adventure. Any time he is out of our sight, he is having adventures. Any time he is out of our sight and away from a companion, those adventures can last hundreds of years – assuming no other continuity reference.

In the past, fans have had to make similar assumptions. The 4th doctor was about 450ish (though he states different ages) and the 7th doctor was over 1000. (Oddly, the 10th was younger). Fans assume the Doctor lies a bit about his age, but still the great span of years suggest the show does not show all. Many books have been shoved into the continuity cracks that have been left. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a River book or two in the future.

Not all of the companions have been from the present day, though the great majority have been. The 2nd doctor had one companion from the distant past and one from the far future, [spoiler] both of whom were forced by the Time Lords back to their respective time lines with their memories removed. (Even Donna’s fate is not unique) [/spoiler] Leela was a human from an old dead colony some time far in the future, Romana was from Galifrey, Nissa was from Traken, Adric from E-space and Jack Harkness from the future, etc.

I’m tempted to jump ahead and watch some 4th season episodes.
But I’m determined to watch 'em in order and I’m currently on Season 3 “Human Nature”.

Definitely fight the urge to jump ahead. You are about to watch the three best episodes of the entire 3rd season! It’s also best to watch the season in order as there are clues to the final third parters throughout. A fun little reveal for the fans.

Cymbeline I like your points and I agree it wouldn’t be out of character for the Doctor to use his knowledge and power to save someone whom he felt deserved it.

Where you saw wonderful personality in River, I saw abandonment issues, arrogance and a complex. It’s just a difference in interpretation. Was she a terrible character? By all means no. She did further the narrative and the Doctor’s personality in a positive and cool way. Did I like her personality? No, I did not although I will admit I haven’t liked her since ER.

Maybe I’m misremembering - but I thought River didn’t really believe it was the Doctor when she saw him - and that her Doctor wasn’t David Tennant?

I got the impression she recognized his behavior, not necessarily his physical appearance, but that seemed to change as the episodes continued. I’m sure it was deliberately left ambiguous so as not to interfere with continuity too much.

I got the feeling that Rivers Doctor was a couple Regens away. Like the 12 doctor or more. Long enough away for the Doctor to recover from Rose who up to this point is the greatest love (i assume, i have yet to go back and watch the old shows) However he has mentioned that he has had a family and kids before in The Doctors Daughter. So one can assume that he has had a few true loves in his time.

Actually, she treats him as a close friend or lover (YMMV), only later realizing that he does not know her. She looks into his eyes and recognizes that he is younger and not yet “her” Doctor, so to speak. This suggests that she only knows the 10th doctor.

I thought River was sort of a female version of Jack – same sort of personality.