River Song's identity?

[Zephyr]

That would make sense if she had somehow regenerated after dying as Madame du Pompador.

That is an interesting theory that would explain her romantic connection to The Doctor. There has been more far-fetched plots in the Who world.

kind of reminds me as a female version of Jack Harkness. Not in character, but she is a constant companion of the Doctor. And she obviously has a romantic connection to him, but that’s just one more piece of the puzzle. Thoughts?

This is closer to what I think she is. She is a rogue time agent turned thief/tomb raider for profit who meets The Doctor and changes her evil ways

the pice of foreshadowing I’ve noticed (Which no one else has mentioned) is River saying she Killed somone, a truly great man. I think she’s responsible for either his next regeneration or the final end for him.

I think this is the most probable, that she killed The Doctor causing him to regenerate. If you remember the plot point from “Time of the Angels” and “Flesh and Stone” the bishop keeps threatening to tell The Doctor about River’s crime. I doubt that just a random murder would phase a man that has committed genocide several time over. He would be a little upset it the murder was his

[Colonel_Forte]

I’m glad to see people still discussing this.

Now I’m about to throw another wrench in. Am I imagining things or did I see River dressed in French period clothing in the coming soon trailier?

[orionpax]

Ok here’s another grenade i’ll throw in. Let’s say Moffat isn’t that simple. Fine, np there. Where does that leave us. It could very well be that River and Amy are not one in the same but are very much closer then anyone realizes. What if instead of being the same person they were say Mother and Daughter. Or better yet Grandmother and Granddaughter. If the latter that could explain why they like each other soo much. We don’t know when River was born, it is assumed that she is from the future. Could be that baby Amy was carrying in the dream episode was a foreshadowing of events pertaining to the Good Doctor.

[SPOILER]After the events in “The Impossible Astronaut”. This could be what Moffat is going for. Oh this season is going to be good.:D[/SPOILER]

[wydelode]

River shakes her finger at you and says, “Spoilers!”

[orionpax]

River shakes her finger at you and says, “Spoilers!”

Ok taken care of.Fixed.

[Julie]

[SPOILER]After the events in “The Impossible Astronaut”. This could be what Moffat is going for. Oh this season is going to be good.:D[/SPOILER]

I am leaning even more toward this theory.

[SPOILER] Especially with the Impossible Astronaut being shown as a young girl in the suit and then killing the Doctor later (which is actually the beginning of the show but two hundred years in the future of the Doctor). It would be very ‘early’ in River Song’s life if it were her as Amy’s daughter, but it would explain how the Doctor knows everything about her and would have raised her and taught her how to fly the TARDIS and travel through time, etc.[/SPOILER]

Either way yes, amazing series!! Waiting a week in between episodes is going to be tough.

[sircastor]

[SPOILER] Especially with the Impossible Astronaut being shown as a young girl in the suit and then killing the Doctor later (which is actually the beginning of the show but two hundred years in the future of the Doctor). It would be very ‘early’ in River Song’s life if it were her as Amy’s daughter, but it would explain how the Doctor knows everything about her and would have raised her and taught her how to fly the TARDIS and travel through time, etc.[/SPOILER]

I think it’s already been addressed that River learned to fly a TARDIS from someone other than the Doctor. Which is BTW is a curious point of contention. The Doctor said at the end of Series 4 that the reason the TARDIS was always bumping about was because it was supposed to have 6 pilots. River seems to handle it just fine all by herself.

[Julie]

I think it’s already been addressed that River learned to fly a TARDIS from someone other than the Doctor. Which is BTW is a curious point of contention. The Doctor said at the end of Series 4 that the reason the TARDIS was always bumping about was because it was supposed to have 6 pilots. River seems to handle it just fine all by herself.

She says that he wasn’t there on that day in one episode (can’t remember which) but at another point she says that he learned from him. I wonder if she was saying it as a technicality because it might have been a ‘different doctor’ so that it wouldn’t be a spoiler but that she still learned from the Doctor, just a different regeneration?

[orionpax]

Well after tonight’s episode. All bets are off. Gonna have to see the whole season for more hints.

[coco]

No kidding. This is my favorite (two parter) opener of the season in the new series. It was exciting, it was clever, it had a good conclusion to the MotW, it left a lot of great beginnings of grand arcs for the season, great continuity (with the whole Silence thing), it had some adorable and poignant squishy moments (Rory/Amy was just beyond cute, as well as River Song’s speech and her feelings on her relationship with The Doctor - which honestly, was truly heartbreaking and touching), it was funny, it had Sheppard, love Smith’s beard, it even took a stab at explaining why Nixon recorded everything AND why he allowed Frost to interview him, heh, it had interesting and logical timey whimey stuff, it was intense, the scenery was gorgeous, etc, etc…

And it’s impossible not to be impressed by Moffat - while he uses very similar themes over and over again - somehow he always seems to manage to find a different take on them and make it new and intriguing, and all the more twisty. It’s like the same bag of tricks, only it’s not. It’s just marvelous.

Yes, I’m flailing a bit, sorry about that. These two episodes really exceeded my expectations, and I feel like I will be enjoying this season a whole lot. I absolutely LOVE River Song though, and can’t wait til she appears again on the show.

Re: TARDIS

I just assumed that River did learn from The Doctor (maybe this incarnation, maybe the next one, but the same Doctor), but that she was simply a more talented pilot and thus was able to figure out the details and the nuances of the TARDIS that The Doctor missed. (And that The Doctor is a proud enough guy that I can see him deciding that his poor driving skills was due to a lack of personnel rather than him being not a great driver. :D)

[Wolfgeek]

Unless something changes the time line that ends with the doctors death, He will never regenerate again. AND he stays in the ‘incarnation’ for two hundred years.

so from the events of these first two episodes, MATT SMITH is the last actor to ever play the doctor, these are the last companions, oh and when did the doctor fix the Chameleon circuit. if the chameleon circuit works why is it always a police box…???

all that said… the season is off to a great start.

in Moffett i trust.

[orionpax]

As of now Matt Smith is not the Last Doctor. It’s just a matter of how are they going to resolve it. Besides River hasn’t made mention that this is her Doctor. Now as far as River and Amy is concerned. We have to see how the time child is involved. Either way it’s going to be a wild ride. Saturday can’t get here fast enough.

[Wolfgeek]

As of now Matt Smith is not the Last Doctor.

Well, we see Matt Smith Die as the doctor. two hundred years in his personal time line. if Matt Smith does not regenerate… no more Doctor…

It’s just a matter of how are they going to resolve it. Besides River hasn’t made mention that this is her Doctor.

to river that would be a spoiler… sweetie…

Now as far as River and Amy is concerned. We have to see how the time child is involved. Either way it’s going to be a wild ride. Saturday can’t get here fast enough.

I am absolutely sure that River is Pond’s Daughter. and River’s Other parent is the TARDIS itself… beginning to rebuild the Time Lord civilization.

and Since i am this sure… this is exactly what won’t happen… :groucho:

but yes it is going to be a great season.

[BishopMontanha]

Unless something changes the time line that ends with the doctors death, He will never regenerate again. AND he stays in the ‘incarnation’ for two hundred years.

so from the events of these first two episodes, MATT SMITH is the last actor to ever play the doctor, these are the last companions, oh and when did the doctor fix the Chameleon circuit. if the chameleon circuit works why is it always a police box…???

all that said… the season is off to a great start.

in Moffett i trust.

Maybe it was never broken (aka the doctor didn’t know how to switch it on, but River does).

[Colonel_Forte]

I don’t recall the Doctor fixing the Chameleon circuit but several versions of the Doctor have actually said they don’t care if it’s ever fixed, he likes the Police Box look.

I’m still waiting for the bottom to fall out on the current plot thread. Somehow what’s going on now ties into the cracks in the universe and we know the Doctor was blamed for it’s destruction. Clearly there are pieces left to fall into place, but I’m sure there’s a twist coming for which none of us will be ready.

I don’t think it’s Renette/Madame de Pompadour anymore though. Oh well, I would have liked to see her again. I think the opening scene of “The Impossible Astronaut” takes care of the period clothing I saw in the trailer. There’s still 11 more episodes to go though so…

[TARDISMini]

And so here I completely geek out… Peter Davidson’s Doctor repaired the Chameleon Circuit, but chose never to use it. He did like the police box look. Chameleon Circuit not to be confused with invisibility, which is what they were using in the the 2 most recent eps.
Here’s what I think. Amy’s unborn child is 1/2 human 1/2 timechild. It was effected by the TARDIS The way WOlfGeek mentioned. This Time Child is frieghtened by the Doctor’s knowlege of her future and kills him. Spending most of her life running from the law, and running into the Doctor she eventually falls in love with him and dies for him in HER timeline end. Of course this is RIVER.
Tell me, is it REALLY a coincident that they are both named after bodies of water? POND, RIVER.

[Thunderscreech]

That’s my theory too. Also, I’m pretty sure there are two of everyone, and not all of the ‘memory lapses’ are actually lapses, some are artifacts of there being TWO copies. Likewise some of the confusing things Rory heard through the psychic bug.

River-child ends up killing ‘the’ Doctor because there must be only one.

[Katebo]

Re: Chameleon Circuit-

The 6th Doctor (Colin Baker) fixed it too and spent a lot of one particular story, Attack of the Cybermen, playing with it (rather disturbingly, to me at least- it just felt wrong to see the Doctor and Peri come out of a pipe organ or really anything other than a police box), only to have it break again by the end of the story. I think the idea is that the TARDIS likes being a police box. At least, that’s what I’d guess.

As for River, I’m sure she in some way kills the Doctor (the whole “best man I ever knew” is a dead giveaway), so it makes sense to me that she’s the kid, though I doubt River kills the Doctor while she’s a kid. Also, I could just be reading into things, but I noticed a few moments of Alex Kingston’s performance in the most recent episode that made me think River was keeping some things to herself- that she wasn’t nearly surprised enough at a few points when they were all in the TARDIS and that she knows who the little girl is. I figured it’s 'cause she’s the kid and remembers all this happening and, of course, Spoilers!

'Course, I’m probably just overanalyzing.

[BitshiftNull]

One of my speculations is 1100-something Doctor knowing he’s going to die but also knowing the “rules” that he can’t interact with his own past time-line decides to not break the rules so much as bend them. By using Amy, Rory, and River to indirectly change his past time-line he gets away with not destroying the universe, but maybe just ends putting a little crack in it as a result… a crack he knows he can get away with causing because he’s already fixed it. Timey-wimey wibly-wobbly.

[Julie]

And so here I completely geek out… Peter Davidson’s Doctor repaired the Chameleon Circuit, but chose never to use it. He did like the police box look. Chameleon Circuit not to be confused with invisibility, which is what they were using in the the 2 most recent eps.
Here’s what I think. Amy’s unborn child is 1/2 human 1/2 timechild. It was effected by the TARDIS The way WOlfGeek mentioned. This Time Child is frieghtened by the Doctor’s knowlege of her future and kills him. Spending most of her life running from the law, and running into the Doctor she eventually falls in love with him and dies for him in HER timeline end. Of course this is RIVER.
Tell me, is it REALLY a coincident that they are both named after bodies of water? POND, RIVER.

Ooh, there are no coincidences! Very good point.

As for River, I’m sure she in some way kills the Doctor (the whole “best man I ever knew” is a dead giveaway), so it makes sense to me that she’s the kid, though I doubt River kills the Doctor while she’s a kid. Also, I could just be reading into things, but I noticed a few moments of Alex Kingston’s performance in the most recent episode that made me think River was keeping some things to herself- that she wasn’t nearly surprised enough at a few points when they were all in the TARDIS and that she knows who the little girl is. I figured it’s 'cause she’s the kid and remembers all this happening and, of course, Spoilers!

'Course, I’m probably just overanalyzing.

I doubt you are overanalyzing, that is the way the Stephen Moffit wants everyone thinking! He has all Whovians under a spell.

One of my speculations is 1100-something Doctor knowing he’s going to die but also knowing the “rules” that he can’t interact with his own past time-line decides to not break the rules so much as bend them. By using Amy, Rory, and River to indirectly change his past time-line he gets away with not destroying the universe, but maybe just ends putting a little crack in it as a result… a crack he knows he can get away with causing because he’s already fixed it. Timey-wimey wibly-wobbly.

Timey-wimey wibbly-wobbly indeed.

I think all of these predictions could be a possibility. I also love the fact that Stephen Moffit has told each of the actors the secrets to their incividual characters. I think it really shows in the show through the way that they interact and I love that it makes the actors even closer to each other off-camera and really gets them in character IRL without having them necessarily behave like their characters 24/7 (although I think they play their characters so well because each of them are similar to their personalities in that way anyway).