Reason for my TNG rants! Tell me your Trek story.

Television, Movies Games and Books Star Trek
#1

I am not by nature a hater. I default to likeing all things trek. But here is the story that many of you might have lived thru. If you have a story tell it.

If you are my age and a big trek fan you probably played a little fasa Trek, read pocket books, and were eagerly awaiting TNG after all the hype of star trek 4.

So the night of Enocunter at farpoint your waiting for the new trek!!! and you get a really non-trek looking bridge. A really non- trek acting crew ( except Data that is basicaly a lot like Spock, and Riker that you hope is like Kirk - you find out later that he isn’t) you get a whiny securty officer, a Klingon Science officer, a Doctor that I liked, and a frakin Kid!!! The kid from Stand by me- no not the cool blonde one that later does drugs and dies, the nerdy one ( ok I like him now days, but would have rather have not had kids)

There is NO adventure in the entire episode. It’s boreing. This is no Kirk episode. It’s not Star Trek 2, 3, or 4. It’s wimpy. The captain is an old man ( now kirk in the movies was old… be watched him get that way. We wanted an actual hero). There was no danger ( except Q who was pretty lame anyway). It was no “where no man has gone before” or even “the cage”

Next episode, rip off of Naked Time. How do they solve the problem? look up in their system how McCoy solved it and make that same vaccine.

Next Episode, the aliens are black people. Not decendants of human colonists that were black. NOPe! black people is the alien race. That’s the best they could do in 1987!!! I know that every race in TOS was basicaly just humans but damn… that was 20 years prior!!!

Season 1 has Ferengi ( at this time they sucked) and Romulan ship at the end. Klingons are emasculated!!!

It wasn’t Star Trek… it ws Nerd Trek, There was no real adventure. Just a lot of talking. amongst characters that you couldn’t make yourself care about for at least three more seasons!!!

There was no real star trek action, adventure, and very little familure Star Trek themes. No orion slave girls, no capatain that even could get a girl if he tried ( and he never tried). I remember it being a big deal that Picard punched a Ferengi on shore leave… I think it was the first punch he had thrown in three seasons. I found myself not really thinking of this as trek, but a different lesser kinda good series that after I got into high school and had a life, I let my friends watch on sat and tell me if it was good and I could watch the good episodes on repeat ( remember that local syndication trick) on Sunday nights. So I did watch the Borg episodes, unification, or if something trek was gonna be on there ( and I could miss riker’s boyfriend, and Troi failing her command test, and Data’s head in San fransico… but I would watch unification, klingons stuff, Borg, Romulan, and Maquis stuff. I like some stuff about text gen, It grew on me. But it shouldnt have had to grow on me. I am a Trek fan, It should have been geat from the start. They had me at episode 1. I wanted to like it. I am a loyal trek fan and would only post this to trek fans. All others I would defend TNG to the end over. I feel like this forum is my “trek Psyciatrist”

The people who saw it first, had nothig to compare it too, and couldn’t get past 60’s effects and comedians impressions to go back after watching TNG. Also they were like " why is the captain full of testosterone, why isn’t he bending over and letting the aliens rape him like picard would" He should really talk it over and compromising instead of winning all the time!!!

TNG is Trek for the Flag Football, timeout, and everyone gets a trophy generation! TOS is for people who like to see a good winner! The new movie has shown the world exactly what works and the TNG people can’t argue. Ticket sales from the new movie have proven the old timers right. Kirk style Star Trek is better. Don’t see those numbers for insurection or nemisis ( or first contact, whch I really really like)

#2

Hated Star Trek as a kid, just too cheap and campy, before my time; then I turn 6 and my dad shows me Wrath of Khan. I immediately demand to see The Motion Picture, The Search for Spock, and wound up watching The Voyage Home until the tape wears out. I catch up on The Original Series and am subsequently in love with and raised by The Next Generation. I am severely disappointed in The Undiscovered Country as my first theater Trek, but Next Gen gets me through. I am delighted by the adventure, the new planets, the mysteries; like Farpoint and the space jellyfish, season 2 is better, but by season 3 they hit their stride. The cast, Patrick Steward in particular, are able to sell what is inherently a very cheesy premise with recycled effects, and bring real emotion and gravitas to series TV. Next Gen basically instilled in me my moral core, which is perhaps a little too lofty and impractical for the real world, but I try my best to live that way to this day. DS9 was hit or miss, Voyager was a great premise squandered on a bad cast and focus on characters at the sacrifice of good plot, and Enterprise was insufferable until the last season, when they finally tied it to what was keeping fans on board for all these decades: TOS and TNG. I loved the new movie, Scotty’s pet Ewok and scientific absurdities aside. But I’ll always love TNG, and won’t mind if someday someone chooses to look at a new, more modern way of telling the stories of those, or slightly different, characters aboard the Enterprise of the future.

#3

Well said!

#4

RPF, I will admit I am confused by your argument. You on one hand refer to TNG as “Nerd Trek” and as “Wimpy.” You then praised Jester for essentially praising TNG.

You also only point to the first few episodes of the first season as evidence for your argument when there are seven seasons to reflect on. You do state that you couldn’t care until season 4, but I find your argument disjointed. If this forum is serving as your trek psychiatrist here is what I observe about you thus far:
[ul]
[li]You hold action in high regard, reflective approaches bore you[/li][li]You are conflicted about both liking and disliking TNG and Trek in general[/li][li]You enjoy the spirit of TOS but don’t enjoy the campiness nor the early effects[/li][/ul]My advice is to work on boiling your thots down to their essence and present them succiently. I think you will find that many agree with your viewpoints…you simply need to refine and organize them in short form.

Hope this helps. :slight_smile:

#5

I think that is great advise for any post anywhere. on any forum. on any topic.

#6

Ditto that. I’ve just abandoned posts in progress when I realized it didn’t hang together (not as many as I should, but I try.)

#7

I think he’s just commending another poster on a well thought out and argued post, even if it is somewhat contrary to his own opinion…

#8

Well it was well said. I think that there’s a point about me that people don’t get. I don’t understand those that think TNG didn’t ruin what made trek great… but I don’t think them crazy for they way they feel. I am not trying to convice anyone of anything. I just wanted to hear from all those people that over the years have had to almost secretly admit that they felt betrayed by TNG. As trekkies we are supposed to like TNG. TNG fans have tried to equate their show as “if you don’t like our show… your not smart enough”. I have always maintained “if you don’t like Kirk- your a virgin who got cut from the football team ( if you even tried out) and have never won a fight” Neither are correct but both have been expressed for 20 years. All I was doing was opening an outlet to express your pain when you were stabbed in the back at Farpoint or in the case of the other guy… give an opposing story… which I respect!

Sure, later on, I had to quit looking for a cool captain and jsut accept Picard and learned to like him for what he was. ( and Stewert is MUCH the better actor than Shanter. ). I thought Riker was Kirkish- so I hoped that Locutus was going to be Picard and Riker would take over the ship and there would be a man in charge of the enterprise again… but I didn’t get it… and just accepted that “real” trek was gone. Roddenberry had won… and trek had become a guilty pleasure instead of cool! Now to be honest I watched TNG as it aired and only rewatched keyepisodes that I particurly liked ( actually purchased- BoBworlds, Yesterdays Enterprise, Klingon episodes and such) In reality I have watched ALL key plot episodes of TNG. But I have not watched bu maybe 50% of the episodes past season 4. I don’t think that means I am speaking out of ignorance… because it wasn’t the episodes and acting tha tI hated… it was the emasculation of Trek. It was Farpoint! It was ripping off a TOS spisodes as episode 2… it was the Zakdorn episode in season 2 where Picard says that they don’t “train in war games, Starfleet isn’t a military organization” that pissed me off.

I think your right, I haven’t made one thing clear. I am a Trek FREAK. I bitch about Voyager… but still watch it (even rerruns). I kinda look at my rants as talking crap about my brother not keeping a job. I am hard on him, if you are a member of my family you can tbe oo!.. but I still love him. And if a non-family member was to talk crap about him… it would be a fight!!! I would defend TNG to non-trekkies as being better than something like b5 ( but would I really have to try hard?) but this is kinda an inside conversation amongst trekkies. There are MANY of us TOS kids that felt that TNG shit all over our hobby when they pooped out a ship with a crew that broke their formula.

To be fair I watched season 1 as a 7th grader. and watched all trek first run ( or as immediate rerun as possible during war years) from 7th grade till Enterprise ended when i was 30. When I do catch a re-run of tng ( WGN is showing TNG every night at 1am EST and are currently in season 2) I ususally like it. I just have to think of it as “not star Trek”. It’s a simular related show that takes place in that same universe. I AM watching it as an adult to give it a chance. But to tell the truth after watching ds9… it’s movieng sooooooo slow and boreing it’s killing me. I am not saying it’s b5 bad…It’s just still sub par, but it’s trek so in the end: Sub par trek is better than CSI, Rock of love bus, B5, or Whalewars any day!

#9

I’ve enjoyed all Trek, with the following exceptions:

  1. Enterprise (just a bad, bad idea, stories that didn’t hold my interest, arcs I didn’t care about, characters I didn’t particularly like - except T’pol, of course - and miserable execution all-around)

  2. Voyager (enjoyed a little, but Kate Mulgrew and Kes? Ugggh…)

TNG had only one major problem in my eyes. The “Wesley Saves The Day” factor. That was dealt with, thankfully. There were MANY excellent TNG episodes, including one of my favorite TV shows of all, the episode entitled “The Inner Light” (Picard getting zapped by the probe and living a lifetime on a planet doomed to be destroyed by a super nova). Exceedingly well-written, well-acted material.

#10

Many of Next Gen’s best episodes were in it’s last three seasons, Beverly’s tryst with her Grandma’s ghosty lover asside. Wesley didn’t bother me when I was little, but the show was far better off without him. Notice they cut all his lines from Nemesis, and you can see why in the deleted scene. Not only is the dialogue lame, but it doesn’t come near addressing what we know happened to his character. Kinda’ like in Insurrection when Data apparently no longer has emotions, or has chosen not to express them, or leaves the chip turned off, or it was damaged by being shot. He does smile in Nemesis and have a few good moments, but I think the real problem with the last two Next Gen movies, as opposed to the first two, was that they abandoned any real character development in favor of action and cutesiness, which were just never Next Gen’s strong suits.

#11

To restate:

You are a big Trek fan who felt the spirit of TOS was lost in TNG and ruined what made Trek great. You appreciate what you have seen of TNG for its own merits but appreciate it more when you don’t think of it as Trek.

Does that summarize your position?

#12

RPF, I am of mixed minds of your rants about TNG. I kind of agree with some aspects of your comparison between the different natures of TOS and TNG, although I probably wouldn’t phrase it in quite the way you did. Kirk is the swashbuckling hero who leads with his gut (no joke intended here), while Picard is cerebral and isn’t afraid to get the input from the committee. However, I don’t agree that one is necessarily better than the other. I saw the entire TOSs in reruns as a child, but then religiously watched TNG when it was new. I think DS9 is the trek I invested the most in. I lost interest in Voyager after about season 4, and then gave Enterprise its full chance.

As far as stating the target audience for TNG were nerds (in another thread), I can see why some would take offence to that, but you may also have somewhat of a point here. TNG was the first Trek created after the existence of the rabid fan base. It also wasn’t tethered by having to make big numbers at the box office. Thus, at the time it took the novel approach of releasing new episodes in syndication. This was part of the origin of the fragmentation of our media outlets and the creation of niche broadcasting. Now we take for granted that non-network shows can survive and yet not have to aim for the ratings that the main networks depend. However, that was a new concept at the time. In that vein, I think that Roddenberry used TNG as an opportunity to make a show that fit closest to his ideals and made a more cerebral Star Trek that fit with the core beliefs that were holding the Trekkie masses together.

However, I do take your point that TNG was aimed at nerds, because at the time I felt like a nerd for watching it. The original release of TNG overlapped with my high school and college years. The adults I knew weren’t into scifi, therefore I thought it was by its nature kids stuff. Therefore, I kept my TNG viewing mostly a secret in high school except for one other friend who we were both surprised to find we each liked the show. I also remember being pleasantly surprised in the late 80’s to find a cool camp counselor (and my first adult) to like TNG as well. Living in the dorms as a freshman in college a small group of us would have to go to the student center TV room to watch new episodes because the TV lounges in all the dorms were occupied for more popular fare. It didn’t help that our local station chose to air it at 10 pm on Saturdays competing against SNL. Also, not good for the college social life. However, by the end of college pretty much every one I knew was watching the show. I think a large part because TNG was much more of an adult show that many of my colleagues had actually grown into appreciating it. (Note, that I don’t mean to imply that I’m calling anyone immature for liking TOS (then again RPF you don’t seem like the person that is easily offended :wink: )).

It is also hard to dispute that TOS movies had a bigger impact as movies than did the TNG versions. First off, there are 3 legitimately very good movies from the TOS era, while I can only state that one of the TNG movies is likely to be considered very good by independent observers. I’m biased of course an like them all equally (just some more equally than others :wink: ). However, I do think there is an argument to be made that by its nature TOS as the ability to be much more cinematic than TNG. Kirk and Spock are both larger than life and make great screen presences. As much as I love them, the same doesn’t quite hold up for TNG. And when they did convert TNG to the big screen it was argued by some that it became the Picard and Data show which kind of went against what many of us liked so much about TNG in the first place. So my point is that simple success in the box office doesn’t make one version of ST better than any other.

I also just want to add, RPF, that I think you may be getting a raw deal in a different but similar thread. As I said I don’t completely agree with your premise, and would certainly express it differently than you have chosen. The simple nature of your posts was certainly going to raise hackles and put people on guard by attacking our beloved TNG. Yet, in looking over your posts I too have not found anything striking of misogynistic or anti-LGBT sentiments. You already pointed out one self-referential joke that others have misconstrued, although self-referential jokes don’t always work well on anonymous forums. In addition, it is hard to praise Kirk and his exploits without some level of misogyny, and a big element of TOS’s appeal was based around eye candy (for both sexes). Given the strong way you state your opinions, I think some may have read between the lines a little too attentively. I can tell that you are a person that likes to skirt the line (which is a quality I can appreciate), while others thought you crossed a line beyond which civic political correctness suggests we not cross (a point I can also appreciate). However, in your defense it is often difficult to know where different people will draw that line, especially in a forum dedicated to a podcast which regularly incorporates a ‘Boob Report’ and has ‘Straight to the Gutter’ and ‘Arm Porn’ threads.

I do appreciate your intent in trying to make a joke about all the cheesy elements from all of the series (Spock’s Brain perchance?) that we wouldn’t have to be subjected to in an alternate time line.

#13

yep! I always felt that TNG was for kids that grew up where “everybody get’s a trophy” and we don’t keep score. Kirk was watched by my dad…a naval officer, and my mom… a nurse who had been a bra burning hippy. Half the boys in my 4th grade class went to my birthday party at regal cinemas where we watched ST3. None of those guys watched TNG later, it jsut didn’t have the appeal. I remeber a runningback on my team, a black guy that kinda looked a little like Levar Burton, was standing beside me in the locker room. He picked up his Web belt and put it over his eyes to like Geordi’s Visor he said to me and smiled " Look Gary, Star Trek"

I looked at him and laughed and said " Oh yeah… Geordi Laforge"

he kinda laughed for a second then noticed another player looking at him and he stoped smiling… and he looked down. He put the belt away.

I mentioned in a class a week later that the two parter with Sela was going to be comeing on and he looked at me and kinda said really loudly so that others could hear " man, I don’t watch that nerd shit"

Sad thing was… It didn’t hurt my feelings, cause I too, knew that that show wasn’t cool… I didn’t feel like he was insulting something… I KNEW that what he was saying was true… and that I was busting him out for doing something that in our social cirlce ( the regular kids ) you didn’t talk about nerdy crap like that. But if he had admitted to watching Wrath of Khan… or some old Trek… that would have been ok. I don’t blame society for that. I blame Roddenberry, and the people that dress up like klingons in public for that. I felt TNG and Trekkie fanatics stole something that I loved and drove it underground.

I am rewatching TNG on WGN with an adult mind to see if there is some merit I missed as a kid. Cause I reacting with the emotions of a pissed off 7th grade fan boy that just had his favorite universe raped before his very eyes… and am just now re-remembering it. I kept it represed as a “meh… what can I do… I love trek, adn this is it… not gonna NOT watch trek” but being at the new movie and nearly crying three times ( ok actually tearing up like a 10 year old girl with a skinned knee) made me VERY angry that TNG robbbed us of 20 years of THAT kinda trek.

Yeah, just don’t call me a communist… cause I’ll loose my job!!! I love trek and this whole thing was supposed to be a joke. i got serious when I got jumped on… and I got too whiney for my taste, so I do appoligize for my actions in that respect. I have never been called out for anything over the internet, and I love the podcast and forum. I don’t want to get kicked off cause sombody thinks I hate gay folks… but I am not going to appoligize for wrongdoing if someone doesn’t tell me what I am wrong for. One can’t say “I love Kirk, but hate masogeny” they go together and they are a part of our fantasy culture. It’s why a lot of women love “bad boys”. I don’t belive in acting like Kirk all the time in the real world, but I expect heroes on Trek to act that way… cause that is the standard he set. And, given the success of this movie… it’s what people have missed for 20 years. ( BTW- I don’t count Kirk in the movies - cause let’s face it, by the movies… Kirk was an old bald guy as well… he just had the good sense to be ashamed of it like a proper man!lol!- see another joke. I added LOL so you would know! Bald dudes… don’t declare war on me, please!)