If there is anything to my thought that the Lords of Kobol are S7 typed Cylons from an earlier point in the cycle, I wonder how the humans on Kobol came up with resurrection technology that enabled them to produce such “perfect” humans, right under the noses of their gods?
How about this - the technology was “stolen” from the Lords by one of their own and given to the humans in an attempt to “level the playing field” between the gods and the humans. Not unlike Promtheus (I know, he was a Titan) stealing fire from the Greek gods to give it to man.
Of course, this enraged Zeus (and was pretty bad for Prometheus’ liver to boot). Which might fit in with the Cavil as the “lead” god idea.
Also, if memory serves, Athena played an important role in this myth. However, I cannot recall just what it was.
If memory serves, I believe it was Athena who provided him with the means/permission to access Olympus and in so doing, steal the fire back for humanity. Where BSG is concerned, I can easily see how the Kobol version of Athena might have played a part in betraying her fellow Lords and after the resulting fight and exodus from Kobol, decided to remain and end her life there as punishment for her involvement.
On that note, the association of Prometheus and the Lords of Kobol is also fitting because of his punishment of having a regenerating/resurrecting liver - in this case, “you wanted resurrection, now you have it”.
I thought I had more to say but it’s the end of my work day and I’m in great danger of mixing up my stories. So I’m going to think on this and hopefully be back with some more coherent-sorted-out allegory.
IF (big IF) we are on to something here, and thinking it through a bit more - the humans having/getting (not creating) the technology to “create” the 13th Tribe Cylons AND to give them the “gift” of resurrection essentially was a gift to themselves - the humans.
Certainly the 13th Tribe was created in the “image” of existing humans - and most probably more than that (a la Daniel Greystone). This is to say that the humans did not just create the 13th Tribe, they - the humans - became as immortal as their Lords/gods, when they did so.
In addition to “John Cavil” being furious with whomever enabled the humans to accomplish this, he would need/want to get the technology “off” of his domain in order for his kind to retain their dominance. Now how to explainthe passage of 2,000 years between the 13th Tribe leaving with the resurrection technology and the 12 Tribes departing (without it) - and what those 2,000 years on Kobol were like - hmmm.
Yes, Prometheus was a Titan. And since the writers of BSG continually remind us that this is part of a larger cycle with the aid of roman-greco myth, we probably want to remember the cycle from those myths:
Uranus (primordial sky) was overthrown by his child, Cronus (the Titan of the Sky). Cronus was then overthrown by his child, Zeus (God of the Sky).
Humans, even in BSG, like to think we evolved on our own (except maybe with a little help from “God” or “the gods”).
Wouldn’t it be interesting to discover that a very long time ago, intelligent creatures evolved on a planet somewhere in ther galaxy and created artificial intelligent life. Some time passed, and the artificial life rebelled and destroyed/usurped their creators. The artificial life then created other artificial life on various planets by seeding them with basic protozoa-like microrganisms encoded with artificial DNA that would mutate and evolve over time… but on its own, into various forms of “life”. Eventually, on some of these planets, intelligent life evolved. Humans were one of these intelligent beings.
Then say humans create intelligent artificial life, that eventually supplant them.
[i]Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
-Arthur C. Clarke[/i]
The Native Americans thought the Europeans were gods.
On Kobol, the “gods” were probably just more highly advanced than the humans or cylons.
The Eight (Athena) who guided the BSG crew to the Tomb of Athena said something like, “Those are the pillar of Heracles. Athena cast herself off those rocks in grief as the twelve tribes left Kobol… whoever or whatever she was…”
I’m paraphrazing. But it doesn’t sound like she did it out of punishment. It sounds more like she killed herself because humans rejected their gods, in particular, her.
On that note, the association of Prometheus and the Lords of Kobol is also fitting because of his punishment of having a regenerating/resurrecting liver - in this case, “you wanted resurrection, now you have it”.
Brilliant! Really good one!
In fact, livers DO regenerate - which kind of makes me wonder how the ancient greeks became aware of this fact…
And human ribs regenerate… you can snip an inch or two off a rib and it will regenerate… which makes one wonder how the Hebrews knew to incorporate this into their creation myth of Adam and Eve…:eek:
Then say humans create intelligent artificial life, that eventually supplant them.
Or “conquer” them in the upcoming battle between Cavil & Co. and the Fleet (or, better stated, as previous such battle). Subsequent subjugation of the humans by the Cavil S7 on the next “Kobol”, as the cycle restarts, is a distinct plot possibility. It fits and the story could be related in the time remaining.
The rebel Cylons could even be welcomed back into the fold - including those sympathetic to the humans, like Athena.
The Native Americans thought the Europeans were gods.
On Kobol, the “gods” were probably just more highly advanced than the humans or cylons.
Why rule out the S7 Cylons as more highly advanced than humans? They do not age and with resurrection technology (presumably “Cavil” gets it back, if the cycle continues) are effectively immortal. They have great speed and strength. Cavil himself does not need sleep. That all is pretty “god like” to us mere mortals (over time).
The Eight (Athena) who guided the BSG crew to the Tomb of Athena said something like, “Those are the pillar of Heracles. Athena cast herself off those rocks in grief as the twelve tribes left Kobol… whoever or whatever she was…”
I’m paraphrazing. But it doesn’t sound like she did it out of punishment. It sounds more like she killed herself because humans rejected their gods, in particular, her.
The idea here is that cylon Athena, loving the humans, assisted our Prometheus cylon in giving the resurrection tech to the humans. The results of that caused extreme strife on “Kobol” and the ultimate departure of the humans. That last fact caused Athena to commit suicide, as she had a direct hand setting in motion the events that caused her beloved humans to depart.
You all might already have these links, but I thought I would add them. I use them ever once in a while when I want to look up something about Greek mythology, as I only remember the names from childhood.
In the podcast this week, RDM went out of his way to read a cut scene from the scenes that he’d written for the show. He thought it was probably shot, and might be on the DVD release, but wasn’t sure. He said it was too talky, was likely cut by the director, but he remains tickled by it. The content was so interesting that I transcribed it.
The scene was “labelled” 6 months ago and featured Ellen talking to Boomer. Ellen and Boomer were doing some form of Tai-chi, and Ellen says:
“Self awareness is not confined to “real world”. In theater, fictional characters are sometimes given a form of self-awareness – this is known as “breaking the 4th wall”. This device is a form of meta-fiction, allowing characters to address the audience directly and comment on the narrative in which they themselves are the participant. In doing so, the characters transcend their fictive nature and enter into a dialectic relationship with the viewer with each side trying to persuade the other of the innate truth of their reality. But does a character actually exist? Does it have form and shape beyond the page on which it is actually written? Can it everybreak the 4th wall and address the unseen, undreamt of audience that watches it’s every move from the safety behind the footlights?
The Lords of Kobol once thought that man could never break the 4th wall, could never look upon the gods with understanding and grasp the divine nature of life. They believed this until one day man stole their fire and created the first cylons, the first artificial life, and then man, in his arrogance thought cylons could not break the 4th wall, and man believed it right up to the moment that the first centurions rebelled, and the great exodus from paradise began. See Boomer, we are not finite creations, we have the capability to evolve, we have so much more potential.”
I remember hearing about that. I think it could’ve been a good, meaningful scene to keep, especially the last paragraph. If they’d just done some editing on that first part it would’ve been great.
Maybe they don’t truly realize how interested we are in Kobol and anything that has to do with origins. I bet they sit around the writers’ room and say stuff like “Kobol? That’s soooooo Season 1, forget it.”
Well, the secret of the opera house still remains. Fair to say that they can tie it back to the opera house on Kobol. I mean, that is some very interesting stuff, maybe it will come up again, but in a different way?
We did have this discussion on another thread. Generally, it’s called writer’s hand; where the prose sounds pretty and all, but it breaks the conceit of having to suspend one’s disbelief. It wouldn’t work in a scene.
The whole thing is interlaced with mythology and current religion.
Cavil and Daniel = Cain and Abel to Ellen’s Eve.
It would seem to me that there was another civil war on Kobol when cylon’s(13th tribe) was created. I wonder if that batch of cylons were skin jobs before they fled to erff. This whole lords of kobol stuff is still very vague. The 13th must have been skin jobs when they left Kobol. Seemingly they prayed to the same gods as the other 12 since they erected the temple of jupiter. They all left Kobol because??? It was nuked and became uninhabitable? You’d think if this cycle happens again and again that there’d be a record of humans creating machines. For crying out loud they can travel through space you’d think they can master record keeping. The only viable answers are:
A. Conspiracy; One to erase these events from future records to find peace. Of course this theory requires reducing humanity to a small enough number that a secret can be kept.
B. Everyone ends up in another stone age where they can’t keep a lasting record and have lost all tech. Seems very bullshitty to me since we’re smart enough to create technology, but of course this theory also stands if human numbers are reduced to the point that no one is smart enough to build technology and the text books are gone… which means Baltar is going away because he’s smart enough to build tech and egotistical enough to lourde it over others.
