Mal's order any different from those of Star Trek Captains?

[hansioux]

Solai suggested we have a thread on this topic, separate from the podcast thread, so here it is.

In the last firefly cast, crew mentioned Mal’s “my way or the highway” attitude is dickish. Despite the fact that Mal did not mean “follow orders or i’ll shoot you” like the crew misquoted in the cast, Mal did mean “follow orders or leave”.

The question is, is that a failure of leadership? And how does it compare with leaders from other scifi series that are well established?

In Star Trek, anyone refuse to follow a direct order are either relieved of duty, confined in their quarters or even thrown into the brig. Is that also considered my way or the high way? What are the differences between Star Trek captains and Mal?

Background on Mal’s order on using dead bodies to dress up Serenity to get pass Reaver Territory in the Serenity Movie.

This is how it is. Anybody doesn’t wanna fly with me any more, this is your port of harbor. There’s a lot of fine ways to die. I ain’t waiting for the Alliance to choose mine.

[shoots Alliance soldier crawling from wreckage]

I mean to confound these bungers. Take my shot at getting to Miranda. Maybe find something I can use to get clear of this. So I hear a word out of any of you that ain’t helping me out or taking your leave, I will shoot you down. Get to work!

Mal explained his reasoning in making the decision. Then gave his crew a choice of join him or stay at Haven. Then he said if you choose to stop me, i’ll shoot you.

[sporkman]

I gotta be quick on a topic that seems to have grown to its own hugeness.

Mal does not, at any point, ask his crew to do something that he himself is not going to be doing as well. Truly bad leadership is “look, over there is the gaping maw of death. You are going to go into. I’m going to wait right here.” His crew also knows that he is loyal to a fault and would, though he talks a big game, put his life on the line for his crew - he just doesn’t want to have to do that. His “you sell out one of my crew members you sell out me” mentality helps keep this family together and safe when the times are rough. They know that he can be harsh in his way of speaking, but they also know that they are going to get through most anything with him.

[LordCorbin]

I’ve always viewed that situation differently because for all that he is the ‘captain’ Ive never viewed him as a commander. These people work and live together but they can pack up and leave at any time. There is an informal obligation and nothing more outside of an immediate life/death situation. I think in that situation Mal realized that although he felt strongly that his course of action was the right one, it was also somewhat above and beyond what you could expect of those people in that position (despite their history). Essentially his little speech boils down to: Im going to do this because I think its right, you dont have to come but dont try to stop me.
The Serenity crew had some valid objections and they voiced those because they arent in a rigid military heirarchy where you follow orders because they are given and not because you agree with them. He told them their options and why he thought it was the right course. And guess what? They followed him because they trusted him.
Calling that a leadership failure is ridiculous, his leadership was the driving force behind their success.

[hansioux]

Essentially his little speech boils down to: Im going to do this because I think its right, you dont have to come but dont try to stop me.

He told them their options and why he thought it was the right course. And guess what? They followed him because they trusted him.

Calling that a leadership failure is ridiculous, his leadership was the driving force behind their success.

Agree with you. And his leadership is the only reason why Jayne hasn’t stabbed everyone’s back.

[hansioux]

Reydaman made some great comparisons between Mal and Picard’s action in First Contact in the podcast thread…

#221: Heist Movies, Ocean's 13, Firefly, Serenity

I have not rewatched First Contanct lately, but I’ll try exploring. As the Borg continue to take over the Enterprise, Picard takes on the attitude that the ship needs to be defended at all costs. When it becomes apparent that defending the ship at all costs and Worf questions him…Picard calls him a coward. The message to the crew…do what I say and the rest of you be damned. On one level we can understand Picard; he had been assimilated by the Borg and has a connection to the Borg that horrifies him. On the other had he uses his knowledge of Worf in an attempt to humilate him so that Worf and the other crewmembers will do what he says.

Now let us turn to the debated scene from the movie Serenity. Malcolm Reynolds tells everyone else to either help, get out the way, or be shot and to add emphasis he shoots an Alliance soldier. On one level we should understand Mal. He sees the Alliance as something akin to evil. In his eyes, the Alliance cares not one bit for anybody and is willing to do anything to achieve its end of stability and safety (thereby leaving a chosen few in charge). Mal has spent time with River…so he knows they are willing to experiment on people. He has seen his friends slaughtered just to cover up Miranda and get River. He has seen the casual disregard the Alliance shows everyone on the Outer planets. On the other hand he uses the threat of physical force or abandonment to get his crew to do what wants.

Although the details are different, I believe the substance of these two examples are the same. Both men do something that can be see as despicable to get the people around them to face the thing that haunts them. However, when listening to the 'cast I hear folks forgive Picard his ‘slips’ and say that what Mal does is ‘unforgiveable.’

[Pintado]

I agree with Lord Corbin’s post on the leadership aspect. I think the point the movie brings out is this was a time of high stress, emotion, and the need for revenge. If Mal tried a reasoned approach it wouldn’t have worked (at least not as well). In my opinion it shows Mal has raw natural leadership, just not refined (like Picard).