Mad Men Discussion Thread
This is a thread for discussing the wonderful show that is Mad Men.
If you haven’t watched the show and haven’t watched the most recent episode, DON’T READ THIS THREAD if you don’t want to be SPOILED.
A lot happened in the most recent episode.
My immediate thot was some of the things that Matthew Weiner, series creator of Mad Men has talked about as some of the themes of the show and his personal journey that led to him creating the show. Weiner was key player behind the scenes of the hit HBO show Sopranos and he said that even when was at the “top” of his game working on Sopranos there was this feeling of wanting more. Of not being satisfied even when you have it all.
Mad Men …and via the Don Draper character in particular – depicted a person that even with seemingly everything …important job where he’s respected, beautiful wife, kids and a more than comfortable income with more on the horizon he was always searching for more to satisfy him.
Now, Draper is despicable in his womanizing and cheating ways of course, but I think anyone can identify with that feeling of “angst when you have no reason for it.”
So now fast forward to this season, Don’s divorced and went through the not so fun times of being single. And now remarried and happy, and a little scared of failing again in marriage. He’s lied, cheated, screwed around plenty.
Meanwhile Pete Campbell is in a whole new level and place compared to where he started when the show began. He’s happily married, new baby, new house in the country. Meanwhile at Sterling Draper Cooper Price he’s not the new kid on the block anymore. Not only has he earned respect and become invaluable as a major accounts manager, he’s now emerged as the responsible one. He’s even pushed Roger to the side in the pecking order and everyone knows it.
Peter in this season and end of last doesn’t seem like such a douche anymore. And he genuinely seems to have a very nice relationship with his adorable and adoring wife. But……again that angst creeps in. He’s always looked up and idolized Don and Pete’s got that douchey part in him where he feels he should have what he deserves. So he starts flirting with the high school girl at Drivers Ed….something that would be probably more obviously creepy now than then…and, when the opportunity arises, he joins Roger and the client soliciting prostitutes as part of an entertainment night wooing a client.
As an audience we’re disappointed at Peter, just as Don is. Don is maybe hypocritical to judge Peter, but Don nevertheless isn’t stupid. He seems that Peter and his wife have a nice thing going, and Peter just torpedoed that.
We don’t really think twice about Roger, because he’s a sad, pathetic character anyway. “Roger’s miserable, but you’re not” says Don to Peter.
Speaking of Roger, in this episode we see him gaining back a little of his position such as it is.
He’s “skilled” and charming and wining and dining clients so he has some sage advice to give Lane. Also, Roger comes down on Ken for spending energy writing novels on the side.
By the way, how cool is it that Ken is writing science fiction novels about robots and such? And as he confides to Peggy, he is in fact taking time away from the “job” to work in his writing.
He says “I’ve replaced dinner meetings with clients with just drinks with clients” in order to free up time to write.
In this day and age, Ken would be celebrated for his creative outlet of writing as an avocation. But back then, it’s frowned upon …and you have to keep it secret. I think we see at the end that Ken is gonna keep writing anyway, and tell everyone “Oh, I’m done with that.”
Lane kissing Joanie. Well…who wouldn’t. He crossed a friendship line there, but Joanie’s used to passes being made her way.
By the way, I’m so proud of Joanie for dumping her husband. He’s a douche, and I don’t care if he’s a soldier or not, Joanie should have to wait around a year for a husband that’s not so great to being with.
So let me be clear. The cheating and womanizing that Don does in the past and Pete does in the present (and Roger does whenever) are not okay. The show does reflect the attitudes of the 1960a Madison avenue power ad execs. And the show is meant to be realistic, not nostalgic.
But I like complex shows like this ---- there’s sophisticated real human situations. And again, that sense of an ache for something more when you’ve got everything…who hasn’t felt that in some aspect of their lives?
Well, those are my rants for now.
I loved the fight between Lane and Pete, especially Roger. “I know we should stop this but I don’t know about anyone else. I want to see this.” Then, I burst out with laughter when Roger said, “I had Lane.”
Though, the hardest I laughed in the episode was Megan’s exclamation of “Cynthia!” at Trudy’s dinner party.
Yeah. The tragedy of Pete Campbell is that this douchey part where he feels he have what he deserves isn’t even what he really wants. I’ve always liked - well, or at least found him immensely intriguing, when he’s being gross and icky - Pete even back in S1 when pretty much everyone despised him is that he’s like this alien living in this world he doesn’t actually understand and is trying to pretend it’s human or something. He emulates and imitates others in a way to fit in very frequently, in how he reacts to things at the office, or how he interacts with his coworkers. There was that scene in the ep when his dad dies he walks into Don’s office, and asks Don how he should react because he doesn’t know what the ‘correct’ way to react is. I don’t think that has ever really changed with Pete. He’s still that alien trying to make himself human somehow, trying to be like everyone else, and now that he’s there, he’s making it, he’s living the american dream - he feels nothing. But yeah, Pete is sort of at the place Don was 10 years ago - married, wife (and an awesome one at that), kid, suburbs, commutes to work from a house resembling Don’s old one; except Pete isn’t even burdened like Don was with a big dark secret. He’s - just unhappy, even if he has absolutely no reason to be. And how do you fix that?
Very cool. I think Cuse wrote a bit of what he thought one of Ken’s scifi stories would be like somewhere online. It’s pretty amusing. But yeah. Ken is probably the closest to a - and perhaps the only - well adjusted person on this show. When Roger shut down his writing, he shrugs it off easily and just starts writing in a different genre under a different name. He’s the guy who knows exactly who he is. This is someone who most definitely is NOT going to be that guy in the opening credits.
Once a rapist, always a rapist. It was a long time coming, and what a great payoff it was to finally see Joan tell him exactly that after so many seasons. LONG TIME COMING.
This show for me is all about the characters and their interactions with each other. “The Suitcase” is one of the best hours of tv ever. I honestly paused the show several times during first watch to prolong my excitement over Peggy & Don’s scenes. The culmination of so many other moments between the two of them resulting in this very real, very honest place where two people connect. Really beautifully written and acted. People talk about this show in relation to the roles of men and women in the workplace in the 60s and it’s definitely a part of the whole. It’s the nature of the show. But for me it’s about looking at the sum of the parts that make up a person’s life, the baggage that they bring from their parents and childhood and crap into adulthood and how that affects their relationships. We clearly see what Don’s childhood has done to him. And we are witnessing Sally’s childhood and predicting what that will mean for her. We all have baggage and I think that’s what is really relatable about the show.
But I came to talk about Pete. Oh, Pete. Dude is messed up. This past episode reminded me of the season 2(?) finale with Pete in his office with the shotgun. And that shotgun was referenced in this episode. I fear what this is foreshadowing. He should be thrilled with his life but is instead a petulant child. He seems to have a very dark side that could be capable of anything. What will he do?
I am not a fan of Meghan but the fact that Don didn’t join in at the brothel makes me like their relationship a little more.
And I cannot get enough of Peggy.
Roger has some of the best lines of the show!
It’s like his whole life he’s learned how to be a functioning member of society by observing others and copying them but it’s not real. He’s still a child.
Damn i really loved this sundays episode. 3 “love” stories that mirrored each other so brilliantly . Thus far this is a really excellent season.
PIZZA HOUSE!
heh. I really heart this show.
Pretty nifty that they kept on and on about how no one can get The Beatles (for the ad song) in the show, and then BAM! Must have been expensive for the show, but damn, that was a pretty excellent and flawless choice of song.
Anxious for tonight’s Mad Men, I’ve loved the season and the past two episodes have been thought provoking to say the least. There is some talk of what role Peggy will play going forward but I believe that her story is as integral to MM as Don’s. I look forward to seeing her at the new agency and hope there is still Peggy & Don interaction. Their last scene when he kisses her hand then sort of collapses and can’t let go, I was fine and then that gesture wrecked me. We forget when Don is being a Dick (heh) throwing money at Peggy out of his frustration about something else that these two are as familiar with each other as they are. The Joan stuff had me up and down as far as whether I thought it was the right place to take the character, whether I thought she would have done it and whether the partners would let it happen. I think the way it was orchestrated by Pete it was believable but there should have been a Joanie/Roger scene. Roger would have talked to her about it first. But it’s in line with the other decisions she has made along the way, like being Roger’s mistress, marrying a man who raped her, cheating. Having sex for financial/professional gain is not surprising. On to last week, I liked Sally’s story. I like the Glen character, not crazy about the actor. I think he makes him creepier than he’s meant to be. Great ending with him and Don. I wasn’t crazy about the Lane storyline this season but the way they handled his suicide was great. Especially everything that happened after he’d done it, from the guys looking over the wall to find him to Joan’s reactions to Don insisting that they take him down. Really powerful. I’d heard critics throughout the season guessing that this season would include a death and earlier on I though if anyone it would be Pete. Looking back now it should’ve been obvious.
Great stuff. Hard to predict what tonight will bring but I have to think the season has been building up to something between Don and Megan. The women in his life- Megan, Sally, Peggy, Joan- all changing from what he would like them to be. How will this affect him?
Okay, here’s some pre-finale thots on where Mad Men is at so far.
First, the episode where Peggy leaves. The whole matter with Joan and the bargin that’s offered to her is very disturbing and I’m thinking WTF the whole time. All the partners are —except Don— see it as an easy way to keep Jaguar which is even more effed up. That Roger doesn’t raise more of an objection I think puts the last straw in Joan and Roger’s connection. When Peggy gives her notice, we finally see what brilliant writing this episode is. It’s all about prices and choices. Women at the that time had very little choices when it came to moving up the ladder. You make the terrible choice Joan makes—though in some ways we end up feeling she’s using them—and going through with it is an Eff You to life. Or you do what Peggy does and leave the firm. I agree, it’s very touching when Don realizes Peggy is really leaving and it’s a milestone in their journey both their lives have taken. But before that, when Don says to Peggy “How much? Everyone has a price”, as an audience we are so clearly feeling that “Oh my god, Joan had her price, Peggy has found a different path.” It’s really stunning writing.
Also, the little time warp trick of Joan and the necklace. That was clever. We realize Don is see Joan AFTER she slept with the dude, and not before.
Lane’s death? Sorry to see the character to go, though I love the drama of it. I feel like his absences opens up an expanded role for Joan at the firm. She’s no longer just the organized manager, but she can be the financial exec at the firm.
Anyway, can’t wait to see what happens tonite on the finale!!
I was pretty upset with Lane’s death. Lane has always been a tragic figure in the show since his arrival to the show, so his suicide was logical and unsurprising (since the show had been implying someone would die for practically the entire season, and once Lane forged Don’s signature instead of asking him for a loan, I kinda thought, Oh no, it’s Lane.) but damn. I was upset.
I was very relieved to see Peggy in the last episode. I was a little worried as to whether or not the show would cover Peggy after she left SCDP, and the finale convinced me that it is definitely not the last we’d see of Peggy, which is a big phew. And I adored her scene with Don in this episode. I had a big ol’ grin on my face when he bumps into her at the cinema.
I actually think the idea that Roger didn’t stand up for Joan more in the meeting where they talked about prostituting her for a client makes sense for a guy like Roger. When you think about it, even Don - the most dissenting voice among the group, which makes sense given his mother - just left the meeting (and didn’t stay and argue against it; ultimately he had to know that just him saying no and then leaving isn’t going to change anything in terms of what the partners decide to do - he just didn’t want to hear about it). And that’s Don. Roger’s hardly a dissenter. But I would agree that this incident does close the door on Joan/Roger because Joan isn’t the kind of person to forget this sort of thing, even if she did decide to go through with it and move up in the only way she can see how.
I don’t dislike Glen. In the last episode, I liked his scene with Don driving the car very much, but I hated the prior scene in the elevator. It was too obvious, even for Mad Men.
And I think that’s mostly what I’m dissatisfied with in the finale. I liked the story they’re telling, I just wish they weren’t so anvilly about it. Like I love the shot of Adam who Don thinks he bumped into earlier in the episode, that was subtle and nicely shot and was a nice callback to Adam, the other guy Don played a role (and while I don’t blame him for Lane’s death, since Lane really did himself in and Don dealt with it in the most gracious way possible, I would imagine Don does blame himself for it like he does with Adam) in his suicide) but I despised the dentist scene where Adam comes in and says point blank “YOUR TOOTH IS ROTTEN. GEE I WONDER WHAT THIS SYMBOLIZES?”. But I liked the shot of Don walking away from Megan’s commercial and into the dark (and then into the bar, where we don’t hear Don’s answer, but we know what the answer is, if not this time with these ladies, another time with another set of ladies).
And similarly Pete’s story about his friend was way way on the nose, even though I love seeing Pete sort of realize he IS a robot who only emulates other people’s dreams thinking they would make him happy. And while I didn’t really care for the whole Beth storyline, I liked that Pete at least realizes that his unhappiness has little to do with Beth, who’s just a concept that he was grasping that he thinks would make him happy. And while I find Pete still an interesting character, it’s nice to see him get beat up - by two guys! - especially after the events of the Joan episode where he was just the grossest ever.
I liked what Megan’s mom said about how not all girls can be ballerinas, but then they take it too far and have her literally tell Megan she’s chasing a phantom. So yeah. I love all the ideas and themes and character arcs and their resolution (or non resolution) in the finale, but I’m not as happy with how hard they hit you over the head with them. Less is more.
Which is a little bit of a shame because this season was otherwise a strong season. A rather depressing season (and so the depressing finale was rather apt), but a strong one.
ETA: oh, but that shot of the five of them standing on the second floor of SCDP? GORGEOUS.
Just my brief comment about the finale: I was a tad disappointed that not much “happened” in the finale (compared to previous episodes).
But it was still Mad Men, and loved it regardless.
Great interview article with Matt Weiner talking about this season http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/mad-men-creator-matthew-weiner-talks-peggy-joan-sci-fi-and-more-about-season-5
Bumping this thread…in preperation for next Sunday night
un deux trois quatre …
OB
This program has single handedly resulted in my corporate associates handing me many tumblers of CC during our Friday afternoon “team building” discussions … beats golf 
Can’t wait!
AAAAANNNNDDDD … there’s this.
Peggy plays --> F*ck Marry Kill. Sterling Cooper Draper link ©
“Oh brother. I don’t want to marry any of them! Impossible,” she bemoaned to GQ. “I guess I’d marry…[Roger] Sterling? F**k Don [Draper]. And I guess I have to kill Pete [Campbell] ? But let me say for the record that none of these are things I’d ever want to do.”
OB
P.S. I’m a Joan man. Mostly because she reminds me of Mrs Oddball.
IBIOB