OMG(s)! Sayid actually
[spoiler] shot little Ben! [/spoiler]
What now? Do ya’ll think it’ll take? Will the Island let this happen?
So I’m assuming that anyone clicking on a discussion thread for this episode has already watched it and that we don’t need spoiler tags. If you haven’t seen it and don’t want to be spoiled, now’s the time to look away.
Assuming it really is impossible to change things that already happened, I’m thinking the Island doesn’t let him die but he gets so jaded by the fact that everyone he trusts (i.e. his dad, Sayid, etc.) seems to hurt him that he never trusts anyone again and turns into the backstabbing Ben in the 2000s we all know and love (to hate).
That was my take - a sort of Greek tragedy thrown into sharp relief by the added complication of a time paradox.
I agree. Think Ben probably killed Nadia as a form of revenge for what Sayid did to him in the past and then further corrupting by getting him to do his bidding. Insult to injury.
Also thinking that Ben may start tracking these Losties for when they come back in the future. This might have something to do with why he asks Ethan and Goodwin to make lists of who they meet when the plane crashes. And he might have a schoolboy crush on Juliet which reoccurs in the future. She looks exactly like “her” (per Harper) which may refer to herself in the past.
I wonder if Juliet considered dropping baby Ethan on his head when she heard his name for the first time…
That’s an excellent theory! What I also find interesting is that Ben defected from the Dharma Inititiative to the Others/Hostiles at some point, whereas Whidmore was clearly an “Other” in the 1950s but now likely has some affiliation with Dharma since the DI logo was on the freighter crew’s secondary protocol plans back in season 4.
I’m in complete agreement about Ben but I do recall that Daniel did the dream thing on Desmond, so there may be some things you can do to effect the future. I can’t wait to find out.
I think the dream thing worked on Desmond because the rules are different for him. Daniel told him that. Somehow, Desmond might be able to change things in the timeline when others can’t.
I’ll be interested to see which of these two threads the story takes:
A) Sayid really did succeed in killing Ben, creating an alternate timeline in which Sun, Frank, resurrected Locke, and adult Ben now find themselves.
b) Wee Ben survives and is emotionally scarred by the experience, turning into the deceptive monster he is today.
I also wanted to ask the hive mind this: Are the scenes with Ben and Sayid that happened while the Oceanic 6 were off-island flash forwards or flash backs? From a chronological standpoint and from Ben’s perspective they’d be flash forwards (i.e. 2005 or so compared to 1977). But from Sayid’s and the audience’s perspective, they’d be flash backs since they have to do with events that have already occured in the show.
That’s the tricky part of playing with time- perspective. I think both answers are correct. Time is relative to the person I believe. What do others say?
Ben and Sayid are as followed
For creepy kid Ben: Flashforward
For Sayid and K.O.ed Ben in 2007: Flashback
For us: Flashback.
The Killings took place in and around 2005 to 2007 which is when the Losties got off the island lived their three years and came back.
One thing I have yet to completely understand.
Desmond was told by Hawking that the universe course corrects. He wasn’t successful in saving “Chah-lie” which seemed to prove this. Yet now we are told (via Dan) that he’s “special.” Are we to infer from this that he can change the future even though he wasn’t able to before? What changed?
Or is it that his consciousness is somewhat freed from time (hence flashes), so he can remember interactions in past through dreams and then use that information in the future. Maybe the others (small “o”) can’t do this?
I have a feeling that Desmond will end up on the island. Probably in an act of desperation after Ben’s attack on Penny at the marina. Maybe he’ll bring Walt back with him. Just throwing it out there.
Agree with others that it depends on your perspective. The creators said that this season they weren’t going to be concerned so much with flash-forwards versus flash-backs, but simply tell the story…where you were was where you were (don’t remember the exact words, but think this was the idea). Think you can loosen the hold on the whole “back” versus “forward” thing as it is always going to be relative to where you/they are now.
Just saw this episode (late I know, it was sky+'d [uk version of tivo]). Holy crap, he actually shot Ben. I think that moment made up for a pretty lack-lustre episode.
Regarding the flash-back/flash-forward discussion, I think we should just call them flashes. Makes my head hurt less. 
I don’t think that’s possible, actually; when Ben gets to the hospital after being teleported/time-travelled, I believe he sees on the television the coverage of Sayid carrying Nadia’s coffin. He even looks pretty surprised, if I recall.