Lost 5.07 - The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham

[NCTibby]

OMGWTFBBQWildBoar!!!1!

I haven’t audibly gasped (in surprise, horror, whatever) while watching this show for a while, but there were several gasp-worthy moments in this one. Good to see you again, Mr. Abaddon; I really wish you could have stuck around but I know you have to get back to that other show on that other network.

I’m so in awe of Terry O’Quinn and Michael Emerson. There’s just so much emotion there. And I’m really curious about Ben’s endgame. I know he’s a lying liar who lies, but I did think he was doing everything to save the Island. But Widmore made an equally compelling argument that it’s him who is actually interested in saving the Island. Plus, the inability to have children and Ben’s cancer could have been signs that he’d fallen out of favor with Jacob. Ack, it hurts my head. In a good way.

Also, there is not enough “Shut up, Kate” in the world. Why don’t we talk about how pure and true your love is, Miss Ex-Fugitive? Let’s see, there’s the childhood sweetheart whom you managed to kill in a police shootout, there’s the perfectly nice Nathan Fillion whom you drugged and left because you “didn’t do taco night,” and the Southern con man whom you occasionally screw because you conveniently forgot about your twoo wuv Jack for a few hours. So, again I say “shut up, Kate.”

Oh, and thanks to Avoidswork for reminding me where I’d seen Caesar before. That was driving me crazy.

[tanstaafl]

I agree for the most part. I still don’t think we really know what is going on between Ben and Widmore; they are both making their cases but I can’t help but think that both of them are leaving a few crucial bits of information out.

But really, when is Locke going to realize that he can’t trust Ben? Come on, Ben has tried to kill him at least twice now. (And succeeded once.)

So Locke is going to kill himself but Ben talks him out of it. Then Locke mentions Ms. Hawking and Ben decides to kill him anyway. Then Ben goes through some trouble to get Locke’s body back to the Island, probably knowing that he will be revived again. Just what is Ben up to?

How did Widmore know Locke would be showing up when he did? Does Locke tell him later and/or earlier? I notice that both Widmore and Ben are adamant that all of the Oceanic 6 must return to the Island. What’s up with that? And, given that Widmore knows who Ms. Hawkings is and where she is, why doesn’t he just get her to tell him where the Island is/will be and go back himself?

Oh great, another bunch of crash survivors. Just when we finally got rid of the first set.

((And can you imagine the headlines back in the real world when word gets out that the Oceanic 6 were all on another plane that has disappeared without a trace over the Pacific? The conspiracy theorists are going to go wild!))

[Mr_Lister_Sir]

I think this episode finally laid out hte ground work for hte entire series and laid out who are all the characters in the series. I don’t have the time to write it right now but it basically comes down to Ben is the Ultimate Good…and Widmore is the Ultimate Bad. And Locke is Jesus.

[tanstaafl]

Wait… Ben is good and Widmore is evil?

Ben is more of the lying, tempting type. He always promises good things, but none of them ever come true, do they.

And, if we’re going to stretch this allegory far enough, remember that we first see him in a tree on the Island. (Insert Garden of Eden reference here.)

[Tom]

The writers are very clever as they have oscillate back and forth. Ben is evil, Ben is good. Widmore’s evil, Widmore’s good.
One thing is clear, they both want control of the island, and they will do what ever is necessary to get what they want.
I remember the lighting in the scene where they confront each other:

I couldn’t help but think of Bele and Lokai from the Star Trek episode “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield”.
I hope Locke is the Christ figure because these guys are both sides of the same coin and the coin= Lying bastard.

[Mr_Lister_Sir]

Wait… Ben is good and Widmore is evil?

Ben is more of the lying, tempting type. He always promises good things, but none of them ever come true, do they.

And, if we’re going to stretch this allegory far enough, remember that we first see him in a tree on the Island. (Insert Garden of Eden reference here.)

The writers are very clever as they have oscillate back and forth. Ben is evil, Ben is good. Widmore’s evil, Widmore’s good.
One thing is clear, they both want control of the island, and they will do what ever is necessary to get what they want.
I remember the lighting in the scene where they confront each other:

I couldn’t help but think of Bele and Lokai from the Star Trek episode “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield”.
I hope Locke is the Christ figure because these guys are both sides of the same coin and the coin= Lying bastard.

I am still cooking up my theory and trying to figure out how to but it in written word. But its fairly sound. Probably not right but sound none the less.

[tikkachic]

I think Ben strangling Locke speaks volumes. I’m sure if Locke had to die for the sake of “good,” Ben could have used his clever tongue (giggle, giggle) to talk him back into the noose just as easily as he talked him out of it. Instead, he goes ahead and strangles the man. That’s pretty cold for a good guy.

I don’t know about Whidmore being a saint, but Mr. “I’m done with lying” Linus just doesn’t seem like the one with a halo.

[tanstaafl]

OK, my long, detailed analysis of this episode.

[Glimfeather]

Really good blog post, Tanstaafl. I too am thoroughly confused about Ms. Hawkings’ affiliations. We know Widmore financially supported her son’s research, and one would assume he used her knowledge and the information at the Lamppost to find out where to send the Freighter. But why then is Ms. Hawking helping Ben now? What’s her interest in this?

I’m pretty sure Ben is evil now, and if he had any interest in preserving the Island, it’s all been pissed away by pettiness and bitterness. It’s just that he’s just too good a liar to let that part of him show through most of the time, and if your interests serve his, he’ll make you think he’s on your side–more than that, that Fate/The Island is on your side. Why any of the characters keeps trusting him is beyond me.

I think Ben and Baltar should be put on two separate ships, each holding the trigger to blow up the other, with a comlink between the two, and let everyone sit back and watch the manipulation duel begin.

[beef]

Why any of the characters keeps trusting him is beyond me.

i agreed with everything u’ve said… but i think they all trust him bcuz nomatter how messd up whats he says is, there is ALWAYS the littlest bit of truth in his statements… and these people are lookn for some great truth, and i think they want to cling to whatever they can… thoughts??

[DawnAZ]

I think I’m wanting to believe that Ben is really bad, but that almost seems too easy. I want to know how/why some people get to come and go off the island (Richard and that pilot dude) and why others must return. I just love how this show found its mojo again. I wish Heros would take note.

[Baron_Of_Hell]

How did Widmore know Locke would be showing up when he did? Does Locke tell him later and/or earlier? I notice that both Widmore and Ben are adamant that all of the Oceanic 6 must return to the Island. What’s up with that? And, given that Widmore knows who Ms. Hawkings is and where she is, why doesn’t he just get her to tell him where the Island is/will be and go back himself?

Widmore had no idea Lock would be showing up. Widmore knew the exit point for the island and have people watching it all the time.
Widmore and Ben believe in the island and

I’m betting Widmore knows he can’t just go back to island or else he’ll end up dead like Ben. I’m also betting Hawkings already told Widmore how to get to the Island at least once. Otherwise I can think of how he sent the ship to the island. I think he probably needs a certain group of people to go back with him. Probably the people he came with.

[Mr_Lister_Sir]

Wait… Ben is good and Widmore is evil?

Ben is more of the lying, tempting type. He always promises good things, but none of them ever come true, do they.

And, if we’re going to stretch this allegory far enough, remember that we first see him in a tree on the Island. (Insert Garden of Eden reference here.)

I finally posted my thots on the subject

[Chadster]

Man, I am really starting to not like Kate. That was really really cold when she said to Locke, “And look how far you’ve come.” Of course, Locke’s my favorite character, so maybe I’m just being defensive. But Kate’s been really getting on my nerves this season. She just seems to be acting so selfishly.

[system]

Entourage said in court papers that he suffered a concussion, a ruptured eardrum, a burst blood vessel in his eye and a torn rotator cuff in the July 2005 scuffle with Iverson’s security detail. The altercation occurred when the basketball [star’s](http://www.mycollects.com/products/Star-Trek- Voyager-Seasons-1-7-DVD-Boxset-DVDS-1296.html) entourage attempted to take over the bar’s VIP section, according to court papers. No criminal charges were filed.

Piven, the Emmy-friendly star of [Entourage](http://www.mycollects.com/products/Entourage-Seasons-1-3-DVD-Boxset-DVDS- 1351.html), exited the production in December, 10 weeks early, citing health concerns related to mercury poisoning, which [Entourage](http://www.mycollects.com/Search.aspx? keyword=entourage) said he got from eating fish. In the statement, the producers noted that Entourage have requested “a wide range of relevant information” from Entourage about his “alleged illness,” including “medical records and documentation of Mr. Piven’s activities both during and after the run of the show.” They also proposed that all information supplied be “subject to a strict confidentiality agreement.”
Blige recently guest-starred on [Entourage](http://www.mycollects.com/products/Star-Trek-Voyager-Seasons -1-7-DVD-Boxset-DVDS-1296.html)

[wavilyem]

Nice try stardvd555, but you really should be smamming us about the star of LOST in this thread