Lost 3.08 - LeFleur

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#1

Another great episode with even MORE questions raised with only a handful of answers. I haven’t put together all my thoughts yet but here’s what I have so far.

Way to tease us with the giant statue guys. Is it of Richard Alpert, I wonder. (Have we ever seen Alpert with his shoes off?)

What’s with Sawyer suddenly becoming so concerned about Locke when he was so dismissive of him before. Is Sawyer developing a sense of responsibility since he got thrust into a leadership role?

Sawyer’s meeting with Richard… Have Sawyer and Richard ever met before? (Or later, depending; earlier in the series I mean.) I’m assuming that Daniel told Sawyer about the bomb which is how Sawyer knew to ask Richard if it was buried.

So you can walk through the sonic fence if you are wearing earplugs? That would have been useful to know a while back.

I’m trying to figure out the timeline; would Ben and his father be on the Island during this period or not? If so, why didn’t Ben recognize Sawyer, Juliet and company? (Why didn’t Richard recognize Juliet for that matter, or did he never see her in the 1970s?)

Geronimo Jackson FTW!

Goodspeed is married to Amy and worries that she is still in love with her ex-husband after 3 years. But when Goodspeed comes to the aid of Ben’s parents (when Ben is born) he is married to someone else. Was this before or after the events of this episode and what happened to Amy and/or his other wife (depending on which it is)?

So Sawyer and Juliet are together just in time for Kate and Jack to show up again. Is anyone tired of the “who will who wind up with” storylines besides me?

How did Sawyer convince the DHARMA people to let him and the others stay? Did he use his knowledge from his time on the Island?

I note that the time Sawyer and company spent with the DHARMA folks (3 years) exactly matches the time the Oceanic 6 were back in civilization. Significant, I suppose.

Where are Rose and Bernard?

Jack, Kate and Hurley wind up in the 1970s. Where did the Ajira plane and the rest of its survivors wind up?

Just my initial thoughts and questions. What do all of you think?

#2

I thought this was a great episode.

My thoughts:

Time line questions: Their final flash brought them to 1974. Three years later would be '77. Perhaps Ben and Pop’s didn’t make it until 79 or 78. Or Maybe Ben was off the island at that point for some reason. We have seen pictures of him being off the island that Keemy’s crew had.

As for Goodspeed being there for when Ben was born. That was probably some time in the late 50’s or early 60’s so it would predate his marriage we saw tonight. I don’t think we have a perfect timeline for when Ben was born. But i am assuming it was sometime in the 60’s. (ok i am going time/space crazy trying to figure it out)

It was really cool seeing the Statue again even if it was a tease. A new theory i have. It looked to be wearing Egyptian garments.

No go back to Sawyers comments about Alpert waring Eye liner…no looking back at history what was the practice of men in ancient Egypt…that’s right wearing makeup especially eyeliner. Also during last weeks episode we saw Hurley drawing pictures of the sphinx. I don’t think that the Statue is of Alpert but i think he was around when it was built oh say a few thousand years ago.

AS for the Fence. Perhaps it has multiple settings. One to kill like it did to Patchey and one to subdue like what happened last night

As for Rose and Bernard…who knows where they are. I’m sure they will pop up soon. They might even find the other bunch of people on the island.

As for the Love quadrangle (or whatever it is now) i saw that coming a mile a way it doesn’t even bother me anymore. Plus i think Sawyer and Kate are meant to be together anyway.

Another really cool thing. We got to see Baby Charlotte. so she was born about 1970ish so that put her about 34 on the island i think…which would make her about 2 when we saw her last night

#3

Richard Alperts initials= Ra…just sayin.

#4

Huh? But Ben and Richard had never met Sawyer, Juliet, etc. at this point in their history. When would they have met? Did I miss something?

#5

Juliette was an Other and knew both Ben and Richard; she was on the Island for three years. Either one of them could have gone "Hey, you know… this Juliette looks just like that mechanic working for DHARMA back in the 1970’s.

They both also know who Sawyer is; they kidnap him in 2004 and Richard gives Locke Sawyer’s file. Richard should definitely have remembered Sawyer at that point. Of course, Richard should have some inkling of the time travel that is going on by now.

Actually, that may be why Richard and Ben have made some of the decisions they have. Richard recruited Juliette (in Not in Portland) because he knew she had to be on the Island to go back in time to the 1970s. The Others got Michael to bring them Sawyer, Jack, Kate and Hurley because they knew they were the ones who showed up back in 1977 as well.

If we accept what Daniel is telling us and “What happened, happened” then it is impossible to change history, so Richard and Ben have to do things so that things happen the way they did.

(Personally, I expect they are going to break the “What happened, happened” rule at some point; that’s probably why Desmond is “special”.)

#6

It was really cool seeing the Statue again even if it was a tease. A new theory i have. It looked to be wearing Egyptian garments.

No go back to Sawyers comments about Alpert waring Eye liner…no looking back at history what was the practice of men in ancient Egypt…that’s right wearing makeup especially eyeliner. Also during last weeks episode we saw Hurley drawing pictures of the sphinx. I don’t think that the Statue is of Alpert but i think he was around when it was built oh say a few thousand years ago.
Check out this blog for some interesting thoughts about the Ancient Egypt connection, the god Anubis, smokey, Richard, etc. I’m totally buying into it.

And while Tunisia/Egypt are not next to each other, they are close enough, both being in Northern Africa, that I am curious as to the connection from ancient times that the island and its antipode had, bringing Ancient Egyptian culture to the island–or was it the other way around?

#7

When Sawer was going out to talk to Richard, I kept waiting for the Chilli Palmer moment: Someone to ask Sawer what he was going to say to him. And Sawer would respond, “Nothing more then I have too. If even that.” I totally would have fit.

#8

Okay, now I get what you were saying! At first I thought you were saying that the 1970s versions of Ben and Richard should have recognized Juliet and Sawyer because they had met in the future. And that didn’t make ANY sense. :wink: But what you’re saying is right. Although I don’t think Ben would necessarily remember the face of someone he’d met decades earlier when he was just a youngin’. At most I’d expect a vague familiarity. Richard on the other hand probably would remember pretty clearly, but I don’t think he’s met Juliette in the past yet, has he?

Although I really like your idea that maybe some of Ben and Richard’s encounters with the survivors in the distant past may have influenced their present decisions. Especially their reason for the specific people they asked Michael to bring. That was a good thought. And I guess we know for sure that at least some of their present actions have been influenced by past encounters. For example, Richard showed up at the birth of John Locke and payed that childhood visit because of their encounter back in the 50s.

I really hope they don’t abandon the “Whatever happened, happened” concept. I’ve always felt that if time travel were possible, that’s the way it would have to work.

#9

Really loved this episode.

I am SO not a shipper, but I’m think that Sawyer/Juliette are a lot alike and should just stick together. They seem to do do what it takes to survive, but also have heart. Recently, they’ve shown they are willing to put other (ahem, not Others) before themselves. Jack and Kate are pretty selfish in comparision. Let’s just keep the pairing as is and move on with more interesting stuff, shall we?

While I do hope they keep to the “whatever happened, happened” concept, it seems a bit problematic when you consider why people don’t seem to remember encounters with time traveling Losties from their past. I think this may be able to be explained by the faulty memory thing that seems so prevelant. I think the writers just need to be very careful with this one.

I was thinking that one reason why Widmore and Ben said they couldn’t kill each other in The Shape of Things to Come may be explained by time travel. Perhaps Widmore had seen Ben in the future and knows to try to kill him would be futile.

Also, I think that Ben’s comment about changing “the rules” may have been in reference to Widmore somehow killing Alex and changing what they both knew to be the future where Alex was alive. This could explain why he was at first so confident it couldn’t happen and then so shocked when it did. I think he attempted to kill Penny but couldn’t (because of the rules?) and is trying to find away to change future through the island.

Just some rambling theories.

#10

So very true about Jack and Kate, tikkachic. I still root for them (as good guys, not as shippers), and I find them interesting, but I wouldn’t want to be their friend. They tend to fall apart when things don’t go their way, and then they get desperate and either start drinking or start whining.

Sawyer and Juliet on the other hand, have come really far–one was a dishonest, callous con man; the other was a shrinking, frightened, despondent ex-wife. But now I’d trust either one to have my back in a heartbeat. Especially Juliet. She’s like Starbuck, but without the emotional episodes. Doctor, mechanic, cook, Latin-speaker, crackshot. And as cool-headed as the day is long. Just sayin’.

#11

I don’t remember Juliet being a shrinking, frighten, or despondent. she too was kinda always kind of a con man woman.

#12

You must not have seen s3e7 “Not in Portland”.
Check it out, it’s a good one!
(watch for the bus)

#13

Lol! And I’m sure she could converse with Charlotte in Klingon, too!

#14

What Tom said:
In “Not in Portland” she was pretty much under the thumb of her ex-husband. She was brilliant, to be sure, but he had her stuck in a dead-end position at the hospital/research center where she worked, and she had no say in her life’s path. Her one joy was using her fertility research to help her sister get pregnant. She was very sad, and you got the impression she’d never stuck up for herself in her life.

Then Richard Alpert showed up and offered her the position on the Island. She said the only way that could happen was if her ex-husband got hit by a bus. The next day, he did. Alpert reappeared AT THE MORGUE where she was viewing the body to see if she’d reconsidered. She was wary, but she went along with it on the condition that she return home in six months to see her sister give birth.

That never happened, of course. In the three years she spent with the Others, Juliet learned lots more skills than baby-making, mostly a sense of herself that allowed her to go head-to-head with Ben in many a battle of wits, as well as be able to take charge in many situations we’ve seen her in since. It was really a dramatic change, and poignant.

So yeah, I love the character of Juliet.