Kirk / Picard discussion from the Podcast.

Television, Movies Games and Books Star Trek
#1

I noticed in the WOK podcast the KirkvsPicard thing came up.

many Trek fans always argue the Kirk Vs Picard thing based on the characters actions in their own episodes and think of it as a contest. I think TNG vs TOS fans really come down to this.

TOS was popular amonsgst non-geeks and geeks. We and our parents grew up with it. Geeks liked trek for the social comentary, most people just like adventure. Kirk IS adventure

TNG was the show for the geek fans. WAY less adventure, more science, peace love and hippiness. TNG gave us federation with no money, litttle to no sex and little fighting. The crew was almost NEVER in danger on landing party’s. Picard was more like an old wise man, not an adventurer.

Kirk is the person the average american boy wants to grow up and be. He is the guy that trek fans between the ages of 8 and 34 wish they were. He is the red blooded all american traditional hero. He can fight, he can captain, he is cute/handsome to most women… he is the Alpha male.

Picard is the guy that you wish your dad was. He would break his hand if he had to spank you.Unless you are an extreme anti-social type… no kid wants to be a skinny bald man, with no personal life, who never gets laid. Sure Picard is a cool character, but he isn’t a “hero” in the traditional sense.

If given the choice of being Kirk or being Picard… most people on this earth would choose Kirk. He has every advantage a man has. It’s what makes him great to watch and read about, and it makes him more human when he get’s old and has to deal with it in TWOK.

Picard was always old.

When I say that you wouldn’t want to grow up and be Picard… I mean sure: rather than growing up in the real world… Picard is better than this.

But Kirk… being him is better than Picard or almost any of the characters.
If given a choice between BEING Kirk or Picard… Kirk wins every time.

#2

Although admittedly… Picard became a bit of an ass-kicker when it came to the Borg in First Contact.

#3

Yeah, you wish your boss was Picard.

You wish you were Kirk.

'nuff said.

#4

if you count giving orders that result in ass kicking, I agree. He just became EXPECTED (not great and ass kicking) in first contact. He fights about as well as bones.

He did have passion about killing the borg. I give him that. At least he was a little hateful. I dod think that is my third all time favorite trek movie.

#5

I got to go with Kirk, well because he is Kirk.

No seriouslly, I grew up wit Kirk (well I met Picard when I was 9, but I had already had 4 movies with Kirk by then) and not only was cooler… when I knew Kirk he was an Admiral. And I know later he goes back to being Captain Kirk but still I always thought the Admiral part was cool; and I would say I am not the only one, as evidence I introduce “Commander, oh I mean the now Admiral Adama.” The rank of Admiral is just cooler.

To be honest in TNG I always liked the Riker character, and I thought he was the most Kirk like; but still he is no Jim Kirk.

Picard had his strong points, I did like how the Captain stopped leading the away missions; I mean sending down the Captain all the time didn’t make much sense from a realistic point of view. So no disrespect to Jean-Luc Picard, I felt he was always a fine Captain… but I got to fall on the side of James T. Kirk.

#6

As I’ve mentioned elsewhere - I’m not a huge fan of Kirk. I’d follow Picard or Sisko over Kirk any day. But I’m much more into being hippy-ish (and no money, well I’ve got that part down) than wanting to be like Kirk.

#7

Yeah, but admit it: Giant lizards? Planet-wide totalitarian societies? Unknown viruses? Unless you’re wearing red, whom do you want beaming down with you?

Kirk. “That’s why he’s the goddamn captain.”

#8

People Always say that Picard is a more realistic representation of a military commander. No one who has been there would agree.

I have worked for the military and the govt respectivly since I was out of university. I have served in 4 war zones. I am a combat vetran of two of them. I have served with british, Aussy, German,Japanese, Korean and Spanish officers. I have served with US Marines, Navy, Army, coasties, and Air Forces officers as well.

I was an enlisted man in my first combat action in Somalia. I was an officer in Bosnia/ Kosovo. I have been a civillian officer in Iraq and Afganistan.

NO commander (in a combat or combat decision makeing role) I have ever served under or witnessed emulates or reminds you of Picard. Officers (even with age) tend to be the best shot, most in shape, most “he-man” of the soldiers, sailors, and airmen in their command. It’s the army and the navy’s motto. Lead from the front. Comabt officer ARE mavricks . They make the quick hard calls.

Officer of the equivalent rank of Picard and Kirk (in TOS) Are Regemental comanders, squadron leaders, and line ship commanders. They aren’t stuffy skinny old men. They are in the thick of things.

And not wanting to toot the old horn, but officers are selected for certain jobs almost based on the system of chooseing the captain of the football team. It is a good ole’ boys club. The guy who plays well, looks the part, rally’s the troops, plays cards with the CO and has a pretty wife or hot girlfriend and could probably win the game himself, he gets the job. Why… because those are the traits of a leader that your men will want to emulate and follow.

The most important trait of an officer is for him , not just to command respect professonaly, or thru built relationships, and officer has to be that guy that when you walk into a bar … you are all drawn to. You follow him, not because he has earned it… or jsut because he has the rank, but because you truely want to. You desire to impress him. You want to be him, you want to die by his command if need be.

Picard isn’t that guy. Not in a realistic military sense. Kirk embodies that.

Now to go all Trek. It’s not Picard’s fault. His character was born in a time when Starfleet was worthless. They had done nothing for some 25 years (since Kitomer- A battle where the romulans raided a Klingon allied post and destroyed the flagship of the federation, and the federation did NOTHING about it). Hell, after that battle they didn’t build another Enterprise for 25 years. That just says that starfleet was Defeatist. No Enterprise in the Fleet that Archer and Kirk built. The admirals above Picard were all deskjocky REMFS (means Rear Echalon Mother Frakkers). The Federation of Picard was so afraid to fight that when the technologicaly, and numericaly inferior Cardasians were fighting a border war… they gave up their own citizens and the planet’s they lived on.) In Kirks day ( or Archers) Picard wouldn’t have been given a command. They needed studs. Picard lived in the era of patrol and maintain.

If I am not mistaken, the 1701-d was the first major mission of exploration undertaken by the federation in some 30 years. ( acording to the pre-series guide I got from Majel Barret a Trekathon 1987 in chattanooga, tn) Captains had been these PC, armchair leaders for years. Do you think Admiral Nasheyev had ever commanded a Starship in combat … no way. Look at her leadership style. Horrible commanders, beed substandard leaders. Now Picard grew as a commander during the TNG. MAny times his problem with starfleet was the need to do things from the cuff.

#9

Also- Sisko embodies Kirk. I have nothing critical to say about him. I like him and think he is a great character and commander. He is the most Kirk of the non-kirks in the series.

#10

my boss was once assimilated by the borg, and he never came back…

#11

I can give some props to Sikso… but the Sikso of the later seasons. He seemed to wishy washy at first for me. The later shows he became more like Hawk from Spencer For Hire, and he was then cool again!

Buy hey, we all have our own reasons we love the shows so much, who am I to judge.

#12

Kirk is a cowboy. Picard is an officer from Her Majesty’s Royal navy.

#13

none of the british officers I ever worked with. those guys are studs.

Picard is an officer in the Royal navy as depicted by some movie you saw that was written by a screen writer with no knowledge.

#14

Kirk is Horatio Hornblower. Or Jack Aubrey.

Picard seems to be a Joint Chief.