Jedi Arrogance

[ol_whatsername]

What always puzzled me was the Jedi ban on marriage - and presumably carnal relations…

Those who are strong in the force, should make babies who may also be strong in the force. Celibacy would weed this gene out of the pool.

Well according to Lucas, their is no rule against Jedi having sex. There isn’t an outright ban on marriage either since it’s not an actual part of the Code but it is a tradition that Jedi seem to have adapted after the war with Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma. There is at least one member of the Council during the prequels who was married because his people required all citizens to be married in order to increase the population. I do think if the Council had discovered that Anakin was married they would have exiled him in a heartbeat. Although according to the EU he wasn’t the only Jedi of his era secretly married, in Jedi Trial Anakin runs into Corran Horn’s father who is also secretly married. There were other Jedi who had secret relationships during the prequel area and one of the more popular theories among EU fans is that Obi-Wan is Mara Jade’s father (which is not a theory that I believe) from one of these secret relationships.

The no marriage thing is the one tradition that I’m extremely glad Luke didn’t implement with his New Jedi Order.

[ol_whatsername]

Back to topic, I was checking out a bit of SW III this weekend, and it made me think even more about the whole Jedi arrogance subject. Is it just me, or do the Jedi seem to do their damnedest to make Anakin into a Sith?

The boy’s a bit confused, trying to figure out who he should trust. The Jedi’s response? “Kiss my ass (sb) some more, and we might let you hang with us.” He goes to Yoda for help with his vision, and Joda – with 900+ years of life experience no less – tells him “just forget everyone important to you and it’ll be fine.” Hell, I’d bet a quarter that 90% of the parents that read this forum would’ve said something like “Be careful! If you try to adjust your behavior to prevent the vision, you might make it happen. The best thing you can do is be a good person and do the right thing. That’s how you can avoid this. And by the way, please come back to me any time if you’re concerned again.”

But nope. They just pitch him to Palpatine – the only guy other than Obi-Wan who’ll even give him the time of day.

Not that I consider it a good thing, but it’s really, really hard to feel sorry for the Jedi – except the younglings, maybe – after pulling BS like that.

Oddly enough the Jedi come out looking even worse in the novelization of ROTS. None of them give Anakin any useful advice, and them not making him a master when they put him on the Council at Palpatine’s wish is an even stupider move in the book because the one thing he wanted was access to the part of their library that only masters can access and not making him a master makes him turn elsewhere for a way to save Padme.

[TighFighter]

There were other Jedi who had secret relationships during the prequel area and one of the more popular theories among EU fans is that Obi-Wan is Mara Jade’s father (which is not a theory that I believe) from one of these secret relationships.

That’s the first I’ve heard of that one. lol I’d like to see the guy that came up with that one. That is just ridiculous.

[ol_whatsername]

I have wondered about that too. But didn’t the council tell Qui-Jin that they wouldn’t accept Anakin into the training program and Qui-Jin decided to “un-officially” train him anyway. Soooo, couldn’t some of the arrogance, in the beginning anyway, be because he really wasn’t a student? Once they get to Episodes 2 and 3, Anakin seems more accepted as an apprentice but I wonder if he still wasn’t really a student? And if he wasn’t really a student, would the council still afford him the same attention and guidance as they would a regular student? I’m not saying that they didn’t wrong him by making him find his own way but that maybe that’s the reasoning the council uses for their “shunning”?

That was by far the stupidest move the Jedi could have made. The only good thing to come out of Qui-Gon’s death is that the Jedi relent and let Obi-Wan train Anakin. How stupid would it have been to let the one who very likely is the Chosen One the Jedi have been waiting for millenia to arrive not be trained in the ways of the Force. Especially as they now have proof that Sith are still out there and active with one of them still alive after the Battle of Naboo. If the Jedi had let Anakin go without training him you can bet that Palpatine would not have done the same.

[quebecois]

everything that is wrong with the jedi can be found in the jedi code

There is no emotion…there is peace
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge
there is no passion, there is serenity
there is no chaos, there is harmony
there is no death, there is the force

now…in the SW universe, yes…strong emotions can lead to the dark side…but…you cannot hide yourself from your emotions like the jedi do and become a cold and remote person . that just lead to disaster down the line. the jedi do not learn to cope with their feelings, they learn to bury them.

so…when those feelings explode…like Vader’s concern for his wife and for his mother. or Revan’s anger and concern for those under the Mandolorian attacks, they just go completly overboard and fall.

and what do they jedi counsel usually do?
meditate and spout chinese cookie wisdom and let the galaxy burn

[missmuffet]

The reason why the Council didn’t want Anakin to be trained goes back to what we were talking about earlier about Jedi suppressing their . By the time of the Prequels came around the Jedi only took in children of the age of 2 or younger. The reason behind this is because at that early age they can mold the child to not form an attachment like parent and child. Anakin’s attachment to his mother is what ultimately caused him to fall.

This is interesting because I think that ultimately what caused Luke to succeed was his love for his friends and for his father.

[TighFighter]

This is interesting because I think that ultimately what caused Luke to succeed was his love for his friends and for his father.

Exactly, that’s what we’ve been talking about in this thread. Because the Jedi denied emotion they couldn’t give Anakin the proper tools he needed to channel and control such strong emotions. Luke was never trained to fully deny all emotions. He grew up being raised by two loving parents. Unlike the Jedi in the PT. Luke kind of had to find his own path. He didn’t have Jedi in his face telling him to suppress his emotions and feelings. Luke was able to make a very different choice because the people around him embraced him as a person rather than judging him as a Jedi. Like I said earlier in the thread Luke understood that the Jedi needed love and compassion as a part of themselves in the EU to prevent another Vader.