IS Geata's / Zarek's revolution wrong just because we think them dicks?

[roosterpfunk69]

I love how Geata hateing the group of robots that killed the human race ( and continues to lie cheat and manipulte, to his knowledge) is seen as bad. Prejudice is often the key component in Military analysis.

In the Intelligense services of this world’s armys ( for which I work) we do JUST THAT every day. We make predictions and form oppinions based on group’s, country’s, culture’s and yes sometimes race’s past consistint actions. That is what MI is all about.

So, for instance, if a jewish guy in Isreal hates Palasinians. It doesn’t by definition make him wrong or incorrect to think that he might should not drive alone in the gaza strip. His analysis tells him… he will probably get attacked. Sure we can call him a dick for being racist… but we shouldn’t fault his analysis. Geata is no different.

Based on the expieriences of ALL the humans in the fleet. The Cylons aren’t to be trustd. So what if six or seven individuals can be trusted. It doesn’t mean that you risk the saftey of the fleet in order to be PC.

Sure it makes him a dick. Don’t drink with him. Don’t invite him to family christmas. But don’t act like his isn’t right just because you don’t like his feelings or motivations . Or because they are against characters that we love.
( and I loves me some Saul Tigh)

Besides… he is prejudiced against machines! machines people… not black people, or asian people, or people of a different religion… or even people!

Zarek might have his own desires as well. But that doesn’t make Adama NOT strait treasonous. To use Chuck’s metaphore. There is no legal precedence where a sitting Vice President can me jailed by a General ( unless he commited a crime on an Army Base and was picked up on an army base). Adama wasn’t even orfered to do it by his girlfriend. He just commited High Treason and did i on his own accord.

Legaly, The moment Adama did that, HE and his followers were in a state of rebellion against the legal civilian government. Militery isn’t supposed to police civilians. It was the OBLIGATION of every officer or citizen to bring them down. That’s not an oppinion, that’s a fact ( at least in the US and British militarys).

Adama was wrong… Geata didn’t disgrace his uniform by stageing the coup…he was Re-establishing the rule of law over a mutinous commander.

So we don’t like what we believe his motivations are… it doesn’t make him not right. Oh and the deck chief killed with a wrench thing… that sucks. But tell that to the tax collectors that our founding fathers tar’d and Featherd ( a fate worse than death sometimes) and often just killed… that were doing their jobs… for the “wrong side”. We learned about it in grade school as a good thing. Something we were supposed to be proud of. You know revolutionary guys that broke a LOT of laws to get the govt that THEY wanted. Revolutions are ugly. So is freedom fighting.

So in the end… i understand thinking that these guys are motivated by rage or greed. I understand poining it out and not likeing it. It doesn’t make them the more wrong in this fight.

A world where the law and freedoms are trashed is much worse than a world where a guy that gets his leg shot off by a robot ( a member of the same robot group that killed his entire race and duped him into complicity in the deaths of his frinds) is motivated by his hate for them, inot doing what is legaly and moraly a right thing.

[Armando]

Besides… he is prejudiced against machines! machines people… not black people, or asian people, or people of a different religion… or even people!

I think, if anything, we’ve come to learn over the past four seasons that cylons are far more complicated than mere “machines.” Unless we are to consider ourselves machines (which, in a very real way, we kind of are).

As someone who works in military intelligence, roosterpfunk, what would happen if a situation were to arise in combat where enemy groups found themselves engaged against a third, more powerful common enemy and the only way for either group to survive were for these antagonistic groups to work together? Say you have a marine platoon in Afghanistan fighting, say, a Marxist paramilitary unit (these probably no longer exist in that part of the world, but work with me here. My only military experience is ten years of military school almost 20 years ago) when suddenly they’re both ambushed by a large contingent of Taliban loyalists. Would it be inconceivable for the marines to ally themselves, however briefly, with the paramilitaries in order to survive this particular battle?

[roosterpfunk69]

good analogy. Yes for one battle. For a single combat action. ( which has been done). then the Americans get back to base and the general / Federal governemtn says . that was ok that you did that… but it is our decision how you proceed in the future.

However this iBSG situation is more analagous to say Japanese Post Pearl harbor.

let’s say a group of Military Japanse break off from the empire and say they are on our side. It’s Togo and Yamamoto themselves! They have a Fleet as big as ours ( an analogy for the Base ship) they have TONS of soldiers ( more than the US army) and Zeros. And they want to just ecome the 49th state.

Macarthur decides he likes these guys. Come to find out Admiral Nimitz was actually a Japanese ( in most people’s mind that would make him a spy even if he never had been- just like many think Tigh is a timebomb. Note: because an analogy for tigh is hard to do- work with me here. Nimitz and Macarthur were the same rank and hated each other but bear with me)

Roosevelt’s polio acts up and he just goes to Macarthur’s headquarters and hide’s out and doesn’t comminiacte with anyone. For all purposes… nobody even knows if he is in charge.

The Congress and the Senete have never voted on a treaty with these new Japanese allies. ( which is the law). The Senete doesn’t like the situation. Many US citizens don’t like it.

Nimitz says… hey the Japanese have a really great way of harnessing power from dams. Power is necessary for the war effort… he determins that this is a military matter. So Macarthur says that the DJ’s are going to do the upgrades.

The people don’t like it, and the Senete passes a law that says that Mayors and Govorners can make their own deisions about whether or not the DJ’s can enter their states and cities.

Now a general doesn’t have the right to tell mayors of US cities, govorners of states what they have to do… but Macarthur does it anyway and he sends the US marines to escort DJ scienists into the cities to do his bidding.

The people are in an uproar, rioting breaks out. The president is nowhere to be seen. THe VP steps up and just states whate the law is. He reiterates to the governer his basic rights as leader of his state.

Macarthur hears that and sends a group of soldiers into the Exacutive office building and captures him. He threates him and imprisions him at levenworth. This is a Coup!

So up comes a junior officer… let’s say who had his leg shot off by a Japanese “spy”,wile he was doing his duty. He had many friends killed at pearl harbor and guatal canal… and he had acdcidently broadcast coordinates of supply convoyin the clear to a Japanese “spy” opperation resulting in many deaths of friends. He is a sad douche. But he knows what the law is. He cares about the future of the fleet… I mean the country.

Sure he is a racist. He hates Japanese. ( like 95% of americans at the time) Imperial or otherwise. He doesn’t trust these guys. Macarthur does everything he does and it set’s him off. He visit’s the vice president in prison and they realize that Macxarthur is in a state of rebellion against the US govenment. Roosevelt is nowhere to be seen.

He breaks the Vp out who says " we got to take our country back… oh and I’ll be president when we do it" and he kills an army guy in order to escape. THat sucks. Had to happen.

The Armed forces members that are not in rebellion against the legal government ( many happen to be racist against the Japanese… but that’s not germain to the legelese here). Attempt to capture the Generals and their rebels and restore the rule of law and democracy.They have to do it to protect the rights of the US people, and retore the rule of law.

Just because many people who are following the “geata” character are dicks… doesn’t meant they aren’t the side that should legaly and moraly win.