I know its exactly scifi but its fantasy and aren’t they really in the same category when you really look at them. Ok maybe not but I just finished reading the trigoly of books and thought I would post how wonderful I thought they were. Has anyone else read them?
I love His Dark Materials. Such a dark, but beautiful, story. I really hope the Golden Compass movie is good!
i loved those books too, especially the first book in the trilogy…
I quite enjoyed the books. However I didn’t get the impression that they were the best thing since Tolkein that some people make out they are. Fairly enjoyable but not amazing.
Isn’t Philip Pullman the devil something ?
Just kidding. The movies looks sweet and I want to read the books too.
I have tried getting into this trilogy twice. The first time, I made it through the first book and halfway into the second; the second time, I just reread the first book. For some reason, I can’t stick with it. I think the plot is interesting enough and the characters are pretty well-drawn, but I find Pullman’s narrative voice overall very slow and ponderous. As someone said above, he’s no Tolkien.
Full discolsure: yes, I am a Christian; no, I don’t think Pullman is any threat to faith. If anyone is interested in that “controversy,” there is an interesting range of opinion expressed over at the BeliefNet “Idol Chatter” blog. As Stephen Colbert would say, “Look it up.” 
I would be open to trying it again for GWC Book Club, though!
I agreed with you before your post but thanks for the website
Hope my post didn’t come off as an argument with you. I got your sarcasm in your message above. I was simply making related conversation! Looks like it will be “Starship Troopers” this month anyway – also cool.
Interesting question over at Lev Grossman’s blog. Can you like Lewis AND Pullman?
Incidentally, the answer seems to be “Spartacus.” Seriously.
It is a good article and apparently a good interview with Pullman. In Lewis’ defense, though, I think Pullman misreads Narnia somewhat when he states:
– NARNIA SPOILERS BELOW –
“Because what Lewis does with the children in that story is to take them through all these adventures, they see wonderful things, and they learn great truths, and so on, and then he kills them. Instead of letting them go free, as I think would be the moral thing to do, the Christian thing to do, to use these truths they’ve learned and these strengths they’ve gained to make the world a better place. To do good! But he takes them away. Doesn’t allow them to do that! Lucky children, you’re dead! You can relax now!”
The children survive for seven books before dying – plenty of time for them to make our world, the “real” world, a better place, which they presumably do when not in Narnia. (Except possibly Susan, and her growing up and never being permitted to return to Narnia does, I confess, give some of Pullman’s other critiques of Lewis some heft.) My own understanding of Christian theology allows for both making this world a better place and hope of a better world to come, after death, which, of course, comes to all, sooner or later. My impression is that Pullman is reacting against those stripes of Christianity which have no room for that “both/and” – i.e., this world is not all that there is, nevertheless you should make it as good as you can and live your mortal life to the fullest while you have it.
I have never read the Narina books and after seeing the movie will probably never have an interest in doing so. I have no idea whether the first movie used the source material wrong or right or in between all I know is the movie lost me when Santa Claus shows up with gifts for them and then really lost me when at the final battle no one really dies that is important on the good side. Its like whelp even though this battle was hugely tough and should of killed a ton of people all you have to do is run around dropping this little liquid on them and everything is alright again.
Again I have never read the books I only know the movie to go on so set me straight if you want.
I really, really enjoyed the His Dark Materials books- perhaps more than any YA fantasy since Lloyd Alexander and Tamora Pierce. Lyra and Will both resonated with me as people, characters much more fully fleshed out than the Pevensies. I think that Philip Pullman managed to deliver an engaging fantasy that still grappled with issues that keep you wrestling and pulling at knots in your mind in a successful, non-patronizing way. He also did great work with gender roles, which I always appreciate. I also admire the way that he took an institution toward which almost all Americans have some sort of opinion- The Church- and challenged it and organized religion without the kind of disrespect that would make me think twice before giving it to my theoretical children (though I’m not a christian so I probably have higher tolerance).
I don’t think his work is a challenge to Tolkien’s but only because Pullman isn’t seeking to create a wholly new world or to captivate people anew with the hero’s journey. When you get right down to it, neither Lyra nor Will really undergo the archetypal heroic epic journal. Also, Pullman asks the reader to focus on our world and imagine the possibilities of minor changes, to believe in something fundamentally more postmodern than Tolkien- the idea that different worlds lay between and on top of and across our own all the time and that those shades and near-matches are important and vital to our universe. And that were we to inhabit any one of those places other than our own, that we would be, somhow, fundamentally different. I love Tolkien and I think I love Pullman (time will tell) but they are very different writers, in my opinion.
I have to say, y’all are making my heart cry with the anti-Narnia, though. Just read the Voyage of the Dawn Treader and tell me that you don’t find something good in Lewis.
I’d be into it. The whole religious aspect of these books (which apparently have been removed or toned down for the movie version) intrigues me. I don’t get into fantasy much, but it sounds like Pullman is trying to go beyond just pure genre fiction.
How can they possibly remove the religious aspects of the books in the second and third movies? In the first movie it won’t be hard- just don’t mention that the Magisterium is an instrument of the Church. While celeb gossip blogs are not usually a great place to read literary commentary, dlisted had it right when they questioned the ability of the films to filter out the religious issues, especially as in the third book there is this character named God and…
Sometimes I feel hollywood tries to side step a lot of the greatness of a book because they don’t want the film to be anti-anything for fear of loss of sells but when you are dealing with a series of books like these its pretty much impossible for you not to just have the church being evil and just come out and say it in the first movie. Because personally if they fuck it up then i just won’t see the 2nd and 3rd movie and the series will be dead to me … (like the x-men movie series but thats a different topic)
It’s interesting you should mention the appearance of Santa Claus (more accurately, Father Christmas) in Narnia as an objection, CodeAndrew – because J. R. R. Tolkien objected to that, too! So you are in good company. Tolkien, of course – as Starbuccaneer points out – was trying to (and, I think, wildly succeeded) establish a totally self-consistent, secondary “sub-creation,” and so the intrusion of any elements from our world – not only Santa Claus, but also Greek mythological creatures (dryads and nyads and fauns, oh my! <g>) – detracted for him (and for me) from the “reality” of Narnia.
I don’t object to the fate of the characters in the battle, as you do, for much the same reason. Narnia has just never felt “real” to me in the way that Middle-Earth has. Narnia is much more clearly a fairy tale, and so it is appropriate, I think, for that genre that the “good guys” all survive. (Although such is not the case in the later books, in all fairness… but I can’t recall if any heroes die in battle.)
I agree with Starbuccaneer, that “Dawn Treader” is one of the better of the Narnia books. The pace is awfully slow, but there are some wonderful moments, most notably Eustace on Dragon Island. That passage sings each and every time. I also like Lucy and the Magician’s Book, fwiw.
So has anyone went to see the movie yet? Any reviews?
I saw it last week. It’s not bad, a decent way to spend a couple of hours. It was reasonably faithful to the book except:
[spoiler]Where the frak was the ending? It just stopped a few chapters before the end. I understand that the ending will be moved to the begining of ‘The Subtle Knife’ should that movie be made. Which I suppose is fair enough, The Lord of the Rings movies did something similar. It was just a bit of a shock for the movie just to end, and on a happy note as well.[/spoiler]
Ditto. Especially in the third book, it would be like trying to remove the religious elements of Paradise Lost, since The Amber Spyglass is (loosely) based on PL…