Here's a serious discussion in Trek. Might be TLDR~

Star Trek is the TV show, that preaches against racism, where the majority of “people” of every given alien race EXCEPT humans tend to act and think in their own unique sterotypical way depending on thier race.

I said this as a joke, but quicly realised that it’s a serious topic. Trek is many different things to many different people for a wide variety of reasons. I like Trek because Kirk was cool and it was great adventure and I grew up with it and watched it with the folks and it’s always been around. Run on sentence that pretty much sums it up for me.

I like the secondary characters in TOS, and despite some peoples feeling to the contrary, the credits tell you who the show was really about. It was the Kirk, SPock, and Bones story. Sure we got hints that the other characters might be interesting…but nothing in the stories really were about that.

As I got older I heard people that I thought were idiots, try to say that Uhura and Sulu were important. I didn’t get it. She says "hailing frequancys open and closed, and Sulu is just a good officer that says yes sir and no sir. ( and this was true on screen until star trek 4 for the most part). I didn’t know that Trek had this whole other meaning to people of different races and sometimes genders. After all, it was a really great adventure story for me and my buddies.

So when I realised that the racial eqaility point of saying everything that needed to be said without haveing to say, I thought that Trek was briliant. They didn’t say "this week on Star Trek there is going to be a Black or Hispanic Admiral at starbase 12, they just did it. That’s why I never saw it. Other than the Abrahm Lincoln response to Uhura where she replys to him that she is neither “fair” or a “maiden” there is never a plot point that defines human races. It’s great storytelling not unlike what RDM and the boys did with the gay brother on Caprica.

So as years go by I hear this nerd and that nerd telling me that Star Trek IS about different races on diferent ships useing science to overcome problems. They care about the treatment of race with each new cast more than the story IMO. Everyone wants to have thier favorite group prepresented in Star Trek. It’s not my thing but I understand it. I could care less, I love DS9 the best and there wasn’t a white guy from the United States in the whole crew.

But this isn’t my point. i jsut wanted to acknowledge that trek has evolved into , and fans expect, a Trek that is bigger and more meaningful than what it is on the surface. Large groups of fans want to have multiple races working together as equals and predjuidice amongst our earth culyures is non existant and all is well. Great message i like it. They go throu pains to address this all the time.

Then it all goes down hill, Why? Becuase they don’t prac

BECAUSE YOU CAN ALMOST TELL EXACTLY WHAT EVERY ALIEN CHARACTER IS GOING TO ACT LIKE BASED ON THIER RACE. The human and alien races treat all of the non humans just like each one is a template for thier race. Well humans from Tarkana IV nerve shut up about how bad they had it growing up and how they had to run from rape gangs. (aka Kligons are almost always loud and violent and probably talk a lot during movies, Romulans are almost always untrustworthy and sneaky and shifty eyed and prone to sneak attacks, Ferengi are all driven by profit and lie and cheat and lend money and steal, Cardasians are all arrogent and barbaric and all love to sleep with the Bajorans women or at least have a history of doing it in thier pasts, Vulcans are always condensending and arrogent and preachy, Green Orion women are always sexy, etc)

HOLD UP! Worf’s visable racism toward Ferangi, and Romulans is shrugged off and laughed at. Human racism toward Ferengi is not ackknoledged as such. The humans and other characters that are held up as moral backbones of the Starfleet almnost always make demeaning coments and sterotypes about culture, food and customes that would never be tolerated on this forum if I or one of you said that about a Korean person or black person.

Trek makes the stement where characters say “we don’t act with predjudice or racism” and then act the part in countless episodes of people that prejudge and exibit racism. But the characters aren’t to be faulted because those sterotypes are almost always true. The writers WRITE the other races as sterotypes. The actual lesson in trek is "sterotypes are real, and almost always acurate, and good guys often exibit behaviour where they pre-judge individuals based on thier race ( or species) and act on it and it’s acceptable.

Trek has a lot of baggage from a time when society wasn’t as progressive as today. Even Next Gen (where many of these races were created) had issues with it.

As someone who has tried to create a universe of disparate races I can tell you, it’s really really hard to not fall into “These are the warmongers. These are the insectoids who have a hive mind. These are the devout capitalists and, of course, here are the humans who have all of those traits in varying quantities.”

The only thing you can do as a creator is try really hard to not fall into the trap. The only thing you can do as a viewer is accept and forgive. Or stop watching, which for me isn’t an option with Trek :slight_smile:

I think this has a lot to do with deadlines. There is only sooo much time to put a script together for a show, lots of pressure to turn out stories and even once done there is nothing to keep meddling producers,actors or directors from messing with your product. Or from producers knuckling under pressure from activist groups to pare down the tone of a script, or worse yet to trim it themselves out of fear of what the audience might think of an ‘edgy’ script.

Also a lack of control over your material is a problem. Unless you negotiate up front as to who has creative control you are at the money people’s mercy. Unless you are lucky and smart like JMS your vision can be perverted and twisted beyond recognition. And the more writers on your staff the more variation in quality and the chances of inconsistency or ‘going off the reservation’ in terms of following the shows BIBLE or rulebook. And the more shows you rack up the greater the problem with continuity…

Success brings along additional problems doesn’t it?

my mother said it best last night. She is a life long trek fan. " Kirk always said that we didn’t have predjudice between earth’s races ( aka skin color, and definitly not religion…becuase it was gone), not that we didn’t have predjudice against aliens. We see racial epitaphs from Bones towads spock, that guy in Balance of terror hates Spock and Romulans,". As I said before we have various examples in all other Trek series.

She said that the trek version of “getting over race” was never explained simply that people quit judgeing. It’s not realistic for people to stop seeing paterns and to never do analysis. In the real world if you see the same looking guy on COPS, unless you are sensitive to social issues, you just might make assumptions.In thier world they had a devistation and saw the equivalent of everyone on COPS. After First Contct, people probably quit fulfilling the stereotypical roles commonly associated with racial and cultural groups. As an example in earth’s fictional history people in the American North East probably stoped fighting each other ( racial tensions between inner city irish and blacks as an example) and hated whatever fictional overseas army that our side was fighting the war against. Arabs probably stoped hateing Jews and vice versa when they ( as Picard said) got rid of the iggnorance that was religion and realised that after First Contact we were humans and there were other folks out there and that we needed to pull together. We had a smaller population. A population that WANTED no more wars and hunger and infighting. PLUS the Vulcans and Denobulans gave us medical science that cured disease and replicators that cured hunger. ALSO in the mythical histort of Earth they formed a unrealistic impossible form of communism that actually worked and cured the earts social issues such as greed, hunger, and jealousy. Still People hated Augments or even the idea of them without being willing to treat them as individuals based on a type of racism dateing back a hundred or so years. Now the federation racists would saw that thier racism was different becuase it was factual and reasons could be demonstrated for the policys and feelinds towards augments…but racists always claim that thier racism is based on facts and analysis and patterns. This is no different.

She said, as humans in the 23 or 24th century we haven’t actually “evolved” beyond predjudices and sterotypes. People still tend to cling to thier “group”, they just define thier group diferently. Now thier group is the whole planet…and sometimes the whole federation.

That is a theory. My therory is much like 5th Horseman said and is more real world. How can people that don’t actually feel the way that the federation humans are supposed to feel, actualy write for those people kinds of people and make it believable. People chuckle at Bones talking down to Spock and vice versa becuase we sometimes act just like him in our world. Worf can hate his enemys because we often do as well.

The great thing about Roddenberry is that in a time of intense racial strife, he took a crew from all racial backgrounds, working together in harmony and said " Let’s tackle the problems “out there”, when of course it was all about here, and about us- i.e. humanity.
BTW Cheronians with white on the left side and black on the right are cool, and the ones with black on the left side and white on the right are fuckin ass holes.

I think it is obvious that Trek while showing that one day racism can be wiped from the face of the earth, also tried to address racial issues through the use of aliens. But I never thought they tried to paint different races of aliens as all alike. Well, don’t know about TOS, but at least all other series makes the aliens different. Even the Ferrangis are not all alike. It’s all about how much time we spend seeing these aliens, or if there’s some crew that has a very stereo-typical view of that race of aliens. If we spend very little time, sometimes the aliens might all seem like evil bastards. If there’s a crew that has a grudge against the race, then you might see things only from his perspective.

And I think that pretty much reflects how stereotypes are in our society, and why it is important not to judge others using stereotypes.