hansioux's firefly Sinian (Chinese) report

Television, Movies Games and Books Firefly
#1

well… I have been rewatching Firefly due to all the show being off the air. I have to say Firefly is great for the holidays.

Anyway, as a person whose first language is Taiwan version of Mandarin, I have often found myself not understanding a single Mandarin word coming out of the crew’s mouth. So I thought I’d rate each character/actors on their Mandarin skill.

Of course there is the great Firefly-Serenity Chinese Pinyinary
http://fireflychinese.kevinsullivansite.net

That and the subtitles helps a lot, so I at least understand what’s going on…

By the way, I am going to refer to Chinese as Sinian, from the word Sina, because the -ese suffix annoys me.

Before i run it through episode by episode, I am going to say so far the best Sinian speaker actually is Jayne…

Report for “Serenity”:

1 - 7:00, After Wash reports an Alliance ship is approaching

Mal: Ta1 Ma1 De5 他媽的

General meaning: Frak.
Literal Translation: His Mother.

Explanation: Common curse word, Abbreviation of the term Cao2 Ta1 Ma1 De5 Bi1 操他媽的屄 which means Up his mom’s bleep.

Phonetics: Though marked as Ta1 Ma1 De5, many speaker often sound like Ta1 Ma3 De3. Which is what Mal sounded like.

Ratings: 8, Decent. Nathan pulled this one out alright.

2 - 7:20, After Jayne and Zoe talk about being humped

Mal: Bi2 Zui3 閉嘴

General Meaning: Shut up
Literal Translation: Shut Mouth

Explanation: Shut up

Phonetics: Since I am not Chinese or Singaporean, I am not a Pinyin user. I often find Hanyu Pinyin and Simplified Chinese idiotic. In this case, Zui is abbreviated from the correct spelling Zuei. I am not sure what is accomplished by not writing the e, but I am sure had the script been written with Zuei, maybe the actors will have a easier time.

Rating: 7, Intelligible. The Z sound in Mandarin is very hard for none Chinese to say. My Chinese name had a Z in it, and for years it was butchered. It didn’t help matters that on my Taiwanese passport it was spelt as Tz. Nathan did ok with it. Though it was barely audible, so without Firefly-Serenity Chinese Pinyinary i might not have been able to catch it.

3 - 7:30, Kaylee answering to Wash’s instructions

Kaylee: Shi2 是

General Meaning: Affirmative
Literal Translation: Yes

Explanation: Shi2 是 is one of the more versatile words in Sinian. It can be used just like the Spanish word Si. It also is the equivalent of “be”. So if you want to conjugate I/You/He/We/Them am/are/is/are a geek, you would use Shi2.

Phonetics: Kaylee sounded like she spoke a 2 syllable word. She could have said Shi2 De5 是的. This is a hard one for non-Mandarin speaker as well. Since Sh in Mandarin does not sound like Sh in Shower. And i in the case of Ci/Chi/Zi/Zhi/Si/Shi sounds nothing like i. There is no similar sound in the English language.

The Sh is made famous by Shaolin temple and its martial arts, also Shaopao, the meat buns. Though the usual pronunciation is already Americanized.

Rating: 4, Poor. Kaylee sounded like Shoo uh. I thought she said sure. I did not know that was meant to be Mandarin until I looked up the Pinyinary.

4 - 8:45, Wash reacting to Alliance Scan.

Wash: Ai1 Ya1! Huai2 Le5 哎呀!壞了

General Meaning: Oh Crap!
Literal Translation: Aiya, bad happening.

Explanation: If you ever watched the Jackie Chan Adventures cartoon, it’d probably heard of lot of Aiya from Uncle. Aiya has no real meaning. It’s just phonetic sounds, carrying the meaning of “something bad’s going on”. Huai2 Le5 means either Bad is happening or something is broken.

Phonetics: This should be one of the easier lines to get right. It pretty much sounds like it’s spelt. The Huai2 part should especially easy, since some people say the “Why” just like Huai2. E in le is a tricky letter in Pinyin. Because in Pinyin e stands for two different sounds. In this case Le5 should sound more like Luh, instead of Lay.

Rating: 2, Unintelligible. Alan did the Aiya pretty well. But his rendition of Huai2 Le5 sounds like he was speaking Hawaiian, Hu’a Le. I really thought he said “Who are they?”

By the way, this line solidified me opinion that Alan speaks the worst mandarin on the crew :stuck_out_tongue: I remember watching an con video, and Alan said he suggested to Joss that they do an episode where the visit a world where Chinese is spoken most of the time. And Nathan teased him about how much trouble Alan has with the Chinese lines, and saying that was the worst idea ever.

5 - 12:05, during Wash and Jayne arguing.

Mal: Bi2 Zui3 閉嘴

Same as 2.

Rating: 6, So so. I thought the first Bi2 Zui3 was a lot closer than this one.

6 - 17:55, Before Zoe head out to see Badger.

Wash: Zhen1 Ta1 Ma1 Yao4 Ming4. Zhu4 Yi4. 真他媽要命。注意。

General Meaning: It’s fraking dangerous. Watch out.
Literal Translation: Really his mother’s life threatening. Pour attention.

Explanation: Ta1 Ma1 portion of this sentence is the same meaning as the first Chinese line ever in Serenity.

This is the case of the original line translator didn’t look at the situation before translating. While the translation back makes sense, that is the incorrect in the context while in Mandarin. This line for situations when crap is happening around them.

For the purpose of warning Zoe before hand about the danger of meeting Badger, the correct translation should have been Ta1 Ma1 De5 Wei2 Xian3. Xiao3 Xin1. 他媽的危險。小心。

The difference in the immediacy between these two would be similar to “Watch out! it’s going to blow!!!” and “it’s likely to explode, be careful.”

Phonetics: Zh is another difficult Mandarin phonetics. Z/Zh, C/Ch, S/Sh are pairs, the ones with h are pronounced with more rounded mouth. In parts of China it also implies an soft r. The old Wade-Giles spelling spelt Zh with Ch, and Ch with Ch’. Causing a lot of romanized names to begin with Ch even though they are not the same word. Ch in Pingyin, by the way, does not sound like Ch in English.

The first character sounded more like Juh, perhaps it’s Zhe2 這 (this) instead of Zhen1 offered by Pinyinary.

In my alternate translation there are words that begin with X. X in Pingyin is another weird one. Xi1 is pronounced like the letter “C”.

Rating: 5, Not good. Alan failed to nail the Zh in both cases, sounding more like J. Though vast improvement over the last, easier, Chinese line.

7 - 34:50, after Shepherd knocked on Inara’s door.

Inara: Qing3 Jin2 請進

General Meaning: Come in.
Literal Translation: Please enter.

Explanation: not much else to say

Phonetics: Q in Pinyin is the equivalent of Ch in English.

Rating: 8, Decent. Though Morena pronounced Jün2 instead of Jin.

8 - 36:50, Mal learning someone on board sent a message to the Alliance.

Mal: Ni3 Ta1 Ma1 De5. Tian1 Xia4 Suo3 You3 De5 Ren2 Dou1 Gai1 Si3. 你他媽的。天下所有的人都該死。

General Meaning: You frakking A! everyone in the world should all just go to hell.
Literal Translation: You his monther’s. Heaven-neath all people all deserve to die.

Explanation: First part is just cursing. Sinian languages refers to the world as Tian1 Xia4 “Under the heaven”. I don’t know how meaningful that world would be when it’s a show about a space in space. Wouldn’t them be technically above the heavens?

Suo3 You3 means everything. You3 in this case does not sound like you in English, more like “yo” as in “yo, what’s up”. Ren2 人 is men/people. The character depicts a person walking. It’s one of the most simple Hanji to learn. Si3 is death or die. Gai1 Si3 is deserves to die.

Phonetics: R in Pinying is not the same as English R. It is hard to approximate it in English. Therefore another difficult sound for the actors.

Rating: 9, More than Decent. Nathan was almost perfect! But he pronounced the last word, si3, more like sua. If he nailed it, it probably would be the best long Chinese line delivered on firefly.

9 - 39:45, Inara attending to Keylee’s gun wound.

Inara: Mei3 Mei3 妹妹, you have to focus!

General Meaning: Sis
Literal Translation: Little sister

Explanation: Chinese put a lot of emphasis on the age order when it comes to kinship term. There normally exist a term for elder and one for younger. In this case, Jie3 姊 is the term for older sister, and Mei3 妹 is the term for little sister. Same goes for brothers Xiong1 兄/Ti2 弟 and uncles Bo2 伯/Shu2 叔. Mei3 Mei3 is often a term of endearment, as it is used in English.

Phonetics: When a term includes two characters in the third tone, like Mei3 Mei3, the second character is often pronounced in the second tone.

Rating: 10, Perfect. Not a hard one to begin with, but the tones were handled to perfection.

10 - 49:00, crew arguing about whether or not it is ok to shove someone out an airlock

Mal: Ni3 Men5 Dou1 Bi4 Zui3! 你們都閉嘴！

General Meaning: Everyone shut the hell up!
Literal Translation: You all shut mouth!

Explanation: In Mandarin (not all dialects does this), to make a noun plural, sometimes the character Men5 們 is added. This is especially true for pronouns. Mal certainly tells people to shut up a lot in this episode.

Phonetics: Ou is pronounced as Oh.

Rating: 9, Great. Nathan didn’t nail the Bi4 Zui3, but still pretty great, even better than the first Bi4 Zui3.

#2

11 - 53:30, Wash talking about reaver’s ship running without shielding radiation.

Wash: Kuang2 Zhe3 De5 狂者的

General Meaning: Nuts
Literal Translation: Crazy people’s

Explanation: I thought this was another poorly translated line. Kuang2 Zhe3 means crazy person/people. But it is rarely used like this . And adding the De5 to make it Possessive doesn’t make sense to me. I think the line should have been Feng1 Kuang2 De5, making it a adverb.

Phonetics: Only Zhe3 should be a problem.

Rating: 6, So so. Not really Alan’s fault. I think he did a great job on this line. But the line was a bit off, so I can’t say I understood what he said.

12 - 57:40 Mal responding to Kaylee gushing over Simon.

Mal: Don’t go working too hard on that crush, Xiao3 Mei4 Mei4 小妹妹.

General Meaning: little sis.
Literal Translation: little baby sister.

Explanation: Same as what Inara referred to Kaylee in 9. But adding a Xiao3 little before the little sis.

Phonetics: X is pretty much s in English. The character 妹 can be Mei3 or Mei4. There’s a slight difference in meaning when used in different tones. Mei3 Mei3 is more endearing than Mei4 Mei4. In Inara’s case Mei3 Mei3 was used. In Mal’s case, he said Mei4 Mei4. When two 4th tone characters are put together in a term, the second character is pronounced in the 5th tone.

Rating: 7, Intelligible. Nathan said it more like Zao3 Mei4 Mei5. Messed up the Xiao3, but nailed the tone change.

13 - 1:12:00 Jayne missing a shot

Jayne: Hun2 Dan4 混蛋

General Meaning: Bastard!
Literal Translation: Mixed Egg!

Explanation: Hun2 Dan4 means mixed egg, which means Bastard. Normally used to refer to someone. In this case Jayne might be referring to the guy he missed. Though this term is common enough that sometimes it just means damn. There are other similar curse words that means bastard. The one used literally is Za2 Zhong3 雜種, which means mutt.

Phonetics: Hun here is not pronounced like the barbaric tribes who invaded Roman. U in pinyin is similar to Oo in English. However Hun does not sound like Hoon either. That is because Hun is the pingyin abbreviation of Huen. Hats off to the inventor of Pinyin, making romantization as irregular as a natural language.

Rating: 8, Decent. Adam didn’t stress the 4th tone on Dan4 enough. But still totally awesome.

14 - 1:16:00, Zoe seeing Reavers right on top of them

Zoe: Ai1 Ya1, Wo3 Men5 Wan2 Le5. 哎呀，我們完了。

General Meaning: Crap, We are doomed.
Literal Translation: Aiya, We are finished.

Explanation: Aiya same as in 4.

Phonetics: nothing new in this one.

Rating: 7, Intelligible. Gina didn’t stick to the tone in Wo3 Men5. She sounded more like Wo1 Men5 Wan2 Le1. Still intelligible though.

It’s also worth noticing on the ship itself, instead of 寧靜 (usually written in Simplified Chinese 宁静), the Marking said 平靜. Both means serenity, though the latter means the state of mind and heart. The one that’s adopted by the show later is often used to describe the surroundings.

Just wrote this for fun… I wanted to know what those Mandarin lines that I can’t understand means, and thought I could share.

#3

Thanks for this! I have long had an interest in learning Mandarin but havent had the time. Be nice if I could use all the resources Ive collected while Im at work but even if I could get away with the mumbling, I dont know how Id cover up the writing part (which Ive heard is essential to learning mandarin)
In the dvd extras they talk a bit about some of the lines they say, amusing to say the least.

#4

Fascinating.

Be on the lookout for the invented terms they used. Things that would sound like, say, a Chinese curse or whatnot to an American, which were translated literally into Chinese, even though it made no more sense in that language. IIRC, they were usually complicated curses involving animals.

#5

Allow me to assist : “Hun” in pinyin would be spelt phonetically, more like “hwun” I guess…

The Chinese swearing still still pretty tame (i.e. still fit for prime time)…would’ve been more colourful in Cantonese or Hokkien… of course, I presume in Alliance culture…all Chinese dialects have been whitewashed like what is being done over here, IRL…

Some aspects of Beijing culture (yes, even the food) is still kindaforeign to us Southern Chinese. Never heard of “kuang zhe” before - maybe they were going “Tolkien” on us and postulating a language shift in the future? Perhaps “kuang zai” or “siao nang kia” sounds better?
(singapore vernacular hokkien is a corrupted form, sprinkled with Malay words here and there; it’s nothing like the literary Hokkien of days gone by)

PS The mandarin spoken in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is the best rendition I’ve heard so far. What you would call “Queen’s English” for chinese? Standard Beijing? Funny thing is Chow Yunfatt is from Hong Kong and Michelle is Malaysian.

#6

Actress Zhang Zi-yi certainly spoke very “Beijing royal’s Mandarin”. If you ever watched Chinese soaps with the actress Zhao Wei, she does a even better Beijing accent. I wouldn’t call Mandarin the “Queen’s English of China” tho. Personally I consider the “Queen’s English of China” be more a kin to what epople used to speak in Tang or Han dynasty, languages with proper 8 tones, and when you read poems with it they actually rhyme. Languages like Hokkien, Holo, Hakka or Cantonese for example.

I love Ang Lee’s movies. Though I actually enjoyed Broke Back Mountain, Pushing Hand, and Eat Drink Man Woman more than CTHD. I guess some of the issues delt in CTHD are very essential in a lot of Wu-xia novels. And I have read a lot of Wu-xia novels. But I did enjoy Chow Yunfat’s acting in that movie. I think it was his best work. Also, it was one the last movies Lang Xiong (Sihung Lung) was in before he passed away. I loved his acting.

#7

As a language geek, even though my language families are not even on that side of the world, this is awesome to read, people. Pure awesome. :slight_smile:

#8

for those unfamiliar with Sinian and other East/Southeast Asian tonal languages such as Vietnamese and Thai, i’ll briefly explain the concept and how it is labeled in romantization in Pinyin.

Most Sinian languages have the concept of tones. Each character besides being assigned a pronunciation or two, also have a particular tone value which is part of the pronunciation. Most traditional Sinian languages have 8 tones.

Tones in a nut shell are pitches and the rise or fall of pitches, sort of like music. The concept of tones exists in European languages, such as the stress/accent in English words. “Galactic” for example has an stress on the second syllable. This is similar to a tonal value, if the stress is removed or moved, the word would sound very strange to most speakers. Though native English speakers often don’t consciously think about stresses in words.

Another example, in the phrase “I saw the classic horror movie Saw.”, most people would assign two different tone values to the two “saw” in the sentence. English uses tones to put emphasis and change sentence structure. The dialogue of “Thank you”, “no, thank you” have different tonal values for the words thank you, and the difference gives them different meaning.

Firefly uses mostly Mandarin, Mandarin has 4 main tones and one shifty 5th tone. In Pinyin without diacritics marks, it is labeled in numbers after each character. I’ll use the sound Ma as example for each tone.

First tone : also known as a flat tone. Usually labeled Ma1 or Mā. Sometimes simply unlabeled and just written as Ma. It imagine what the tone sounds like, say the name Gaeta. The tone you assigned to the first syllable is the Mandarin First tone.

Second tone : also called raising tone. Usually labeled as Ma2 or Má. Imagine asking a questing “Are you there?” The is similar to the raising tone.

Third tone : Falling-Rising/low tone. Usually labeled as Ma3 or Mǎ. It’s hard to find an English example for this. Say “Del Taco”, the tone you assigned to Del is most likely similar to the Mandarin third tone.

Forth tone : Falling tone. Usually labeled as Ma4 or Mà. This tone exists in abundance in English. Any word or syllable with a stress is the equivalent of Mandarin forth tone. When you say “Frak” by itself, most likely it is similar to the Mandarin forth tone.

Fifth tone : Usually labeled as Ma5, Ma or .Ma/Mȧ Pinyin calls it neutral tone. I rather call it the short tone. Because basically it is first tone but pronounced short and abrupt. Compare the length of the D syllable between Dee and Difference. “Di” in difference is similar to the fifth tone.

as kids mandarin speakers say the 4 tones repeated in order, Ma1 Ma2 Ma3 Ma4, just to be familiar with them.

Now you know, next time a co-worker is getting on your nerves, you can tell them to Bi2 Zui3… provided that they don’t speak mandarin or watch firefly.