GWC Re-Watch Frak Party: Exodus, Pt. 1

Frak Party Archives BSG Frak Party Archive
#1

It’s week thirty-two of our planned off-season re-watch of the entire “re-imagined” BSG canon, and it’s time to move on to the season three episode “Exodus, Pt. 1.” So why not join us here for the GWC online frak party? There’s room for everyone, though you’ll have to bring your own snacks…

Feel free to jump in at any point with your comments on this week’s episode as the re-watch is by definition spoiler free. We’ll be in and out, but we’ll definitely take a look at your comments before we start next week’s podcast.

Note: Some readers/listeners asked us to leave comments open on the frak party blog post as they enjoy commenting more than forums. So if you have the time, keep an eye on the blog post every now and then, too, so we don’t leave 'em out in the cold.

http://www.galacticawatercooler.com/2007/11/13/gwc-re-watch-frak-party-exodus-pt-1/

#2

“Chief, the last thing your son wants is me and Ellen for parents”

haha, truer words were never spoken :smiley:

#3

You can see it in Ellen’s eyes, she is willing to do ANYTHING for the man she loves, no matter how frakked up their relationship is, she would do anything (even anyone) to keep Saul safe. I miss her character, there are so many characters on the show who seem to do anything they can for themselves (ex: Baltar, Zarek).

When Baltar and Caprica Six were talking post non-coital, all I was thinking was what if both Head Six and Head Baltar had been there and they were able to interact with one another, think about the combined disdain they would have for their non-head counterparts, it would have been so much fun to watch.

MAN, when Adama announces the Cmdr of the Pegasus leaving the Galactica hangar and Lee turns around to salute, you get the FULL fat suit treatment, and holy mother of FRAK is he fat sad and teary!

I know Roslyn assigned Maya and Hera/Isis as priority #1 protection targets and Anders said he put his best shooters on their security… but in the end, Maya and the shooters ended up dead and Hera was left for #3 to find. Something even more interesting now that we know Anders to be a part of the final 5.

#4

Boy, that fat suit is really something, huh? Speaking of which, if anyone here reads the comic book Dynamo 5, you probably caught this exchange between two of the characters in a panel near the beginning of issue/chapter 3: “I’m glad he’s not wearing that fat suit anymore, Jamie Bamber is yummy.”

Hey, the new BSG becoming a cultural touchstone. Gotta love it. :slight_smile:

I feel a lot more sympathy for Ellen this time around then I did last year – I guess I am no longer so caught up in the “They jumped ahead one year!!!” reaction.

Was Tigh’s line in the “Previously” montage for this episode actually in the season premiere – the one about, “There are no boundaries for us”? I must say, though I would like to think I would disagree with Tigh about the ethics of suicide bombings, I felt a lot of sympathy for his position, too. I also loved the classic Roslin moment where she slaps him, apologizes for it, and then Tigh says, basically, “Lady, we got bigger fish to fry.” Awesome writing, awesome acting. This whole arc is a lot more satisfactory the second time around, after the shock of the time jump is gone.

#5

When Lee sits around the Pegasus–he really sits AROUND the Pegasus:D

#6

Well, he didn’t say he put his best “dodgers” on their security, maybe that should have been a clue to us all. :stuck_out_tongue:

#7

Wow, this part of the rewatch has been the most fun yet–it’s amazing how differently many of the scenes in these early S3 episodes play now that we know how S3 ends.

Fat Lee is more distracting than he was last time around for me, but that might be because of the order I watched the series. The first episode of BSG I ever saw was “Occupation/Precipice,” and I knew nothing about the series except a brief plot overview and character list that I read online after hearing about the show’s critical acclaim. Hence, I didn’t know that the actor playing Lee was wearing a fat suit in the early days. It was a very pleasant surprise when he started losing weight so fast later on in the season… :slight_smile:

Poor Ellen. It’s too bad that she didn’t feel she could trust the other resistance members to tell them about the threat to Tigh; they might have found a way to get him into hiding. Was she afraid that she’d have to admit to how she’d found out the information, or did she just not have any faith that the others would put Saul’s safety at as high a priority as she did?

It’s ironic that, in the scene between D’Anna and Athena, both of them are telling the truth, yet neither believes the other. Hera is alive, and Adama wouldn’t (and didn’t) lie to Athena, since now we know he didn’t know about the baby swap.

Speaking of babies, the first time around, Athena’s comment to Tyrol for Cally to never let their son out of her sight just seemed like concern for the Tyrols and lingering doubts about Hera, but now it’s even stranger, since Nicholas is the second born of the new generation. Athena can’t consciously know that Tyrol is a Final Fiver, but could she know something subconsciously and it’s glimmering through the repression just a bit here? Or is it just a really, really big coincidence?

The biggest question of all that this episode leaves for me is in the scene between Anders and Roslin when they’re talking about Mya and Hera/Isis:

Anders
I don’t suppose you’re going to tell me what this is all about. I mean, what’s so important about this kid?

Roslin
She may very well be the shape of things to come.
That’s either a blessing or a curse.

Now, it seems like we know what’s going on here: Roslin wants Anders to protect Hera at all costs because she’s the Cylon-human child. But wait a minute, “the shape of things to come?” Where did that come from? The only other people we’ve heard that phrase from are Head Six in the Opera House and Head Adama (or Vision Adama?) in Baltar’s dream/hallucination on Kobol when Adama drowns the baby. Where is Roslin getting this from? Is it scripture? Is it from a vision? Has she subconsciously already been to the Opera House somehow?

Also, it’s interesting that although Roslin wanted to abort Hera to keep her out of Cylon hands, she doesn’t authorize Anders to kill her if it looks like they’re going to be captured. Roslin seems to have gone from being out solely to keep the baby away from the Cylons at all costs to trying to protect the baby from the Cylons–and there is a difference. Why the change? Is it because Roslin has Hera’s blood running through her veins and is now somehow connected to Hera’s fate? Is it because Hera could be “either a blessing or a curse”? A blessing or a curse to whom? And how does Roslin know this?

A lot of viewers have been predicting that “the shape of things to come” is the integration of Cylons and humans, but that’s in part because we’ve been knocked over the head with this idea of Hera being so important and “the shape of things to come” for a long time from Head Six; it doesn’t make sense for Roslin to draw that conclusion on her own. It’s not a really logical conclusion, when you think about it. For instance, just because a tiger and a lion mate and produce a liger, that doesn’t mean all zoologists jump to the conclusion that the liger is going to be “the shape of things to come” for lions and tigers; yeah, maybe you’ll get a few, but on the whole, most cubs are still going to be lion cubs or tiger cubs. Not the greatest example, but I hope it shows why I’m curious about where Roslin is getting her ideas about Hera’s destiny from.

#8

I have two possible explanations:

  1. Hera’s blood. Never mind Baltar’s bullshit explanation that it has no antigens or whatever. I’ve always assumed that what really cured Roslin were fetal stem cells (which would negate this trick working a second time now that Hera is no longer a fetus). Anyway, stem cells can differentiate into any type of cell, including neurons, which can and do become incorporated into the brain. So I think Roslin has a few hybrid cells in her head which could be feeding her this information.

  2. All that chamalla. Incidentally, we meet our first incredibly credible Oracle in this episode. What is striking and refreshing to me about the Oracles is they don’t speak in vague mumbo-jumbo that can be interpreted a million different ways. Their information is very accurate and precise, which begs the question, why do they have such marginal roles? Hell, with access to that kind of intelligence, I’d put one in CIC.

Anyway, I wonder if the abilities of the oracles are innate or due entirely to the vast amounts of chamalla they consume. (The oracle in this ep seems to be eating it constantly.) I posit the following:

a) The sixth sense is real in the BSG universe. There is a way beyond the five senses to receive knowledge about the past and future.

b) Chamalla opens the doors of perception to this other dimension where information about the past and future can be obtained.

c) Chamalla mimics or augments a naturally occurring neurotransmitter in the brain.

d) Baltar by nature and the humanoid Cylons by design can, on demand, produce this neurotransmitter in spades.

Which would explain a lot. What if the Cylons have exploited the “chamalloid” transmitter system as a means for uploading/downloading consciousness, using this fifth or whatever dimension as a way station? This would explain how they’re able to upload over vast reaches of space without the immense power source and time delay that conventional transmission via electromagnetic waves would require. (If each Cylon were carrying around a nuclear powered WLAN router, I think someone would notice.) It would also explain why Number Three thinks she can use the upload/download process to learn about the Final Five. (“There’s something beautiful, miraculous between life and death.”) And maybe the Hybrids are linked into this other dimensional plane on a continuous basis, rendering them both incredibly prescient and crazy. (Like being submerged in chamalla all the time.)

And Baltar: maybe he’s an example of how close nature can come to creating a Cylon, at least in terms of brain chemistry. I’m speculating his brain produces high levels of endogenous chamalla, especially when stressed, which render him extra-sensory receptive. We’ve gone back and forth on whether Head Six is real (an autonomous agent) or imaginary (a part of Baltar). But what if both were true? Maybe there is intelligence in this other dimension perceived by Hybrids, downloading Cylons, and chamalla eaters, and maybe Head Six is how Baltar’s brain constructs the information it receives from it. As such, Head Six would be a synthesis of external agency and Baltar’s ego, reflecting the needs of both.

So, to bring this back to the “how does Roslin know…” question, I think this is the same question as “how do the Oracles know…” or “how does Baltar know…” And I think there is a common answer.

#9

Not just that, when Tigh finds out they’ve been screwed by Ellen and realizes his life and “freedom”(ie from the prison) has been in exchange for the betrayal of the Resistance, you can see it in his eye that a large part of him just died.

#10

In the immortal words of Tigh, “Whoa.” :slight_smile:

The first is probably the most likely explanation, but I really like your ideas about chamalla. It would make a lot of the mysteries of the show make sense. I’ve always wondered how Cylons can both be nearly identical to humans even on the cellular level but still do something that humans can’t: download. (I’ve also always wondered why Baltar has never seemed particularly curious about downloading or tried to figure out a way for humans to download, since never having to die permanently would be the greatest dream of somebody as survival-bent as Baltar, but that’s a whole other subject…). Anyway, this would make a lot of sense; everybody that has chamalla in them, either by eating it or by their own natural chemistry, has the capability to send their consciousnesses to the Opera House/place between life and death/fifth dimension/what have you, and the Cylons can download because they’ve found a way of then sending their consciousnesses from the Opera House to new bodies. Human consciousnesses seem to be bounced back to their old bodies. I wonder if the Cylons even really know how they manage downloading? I could see the process as being something that started out as scientific but was forgotten over time and is now seen as purely supernatural.

Thanks again for so many interesting thoughts! That’ll give me plenty to mull over for awhile…

#11

a) The sixth sense is real in the BSG universe. There is a way beyond the five senses to receive knowledge about the past and future.

b) Chamalla opens the doors of perception to this other dimension where information about the past and future can be obtained.

c) Chamalla mimics or augments a naturally occurring neurotransmitter in the brain.

d) Baltar by nature and the humanoid Cylons by design can, on demand, produce this neurotransmitter in spades.

Jason I think your theory is excellent. I hope Chuck, Audra and The Dude bring this up in the next podcast as I would love to hear their take on it.

#12

I love the chamalla theory. It makes me think of the geriatric spice in Dune. (The spice must flow!) I especially like how it accounts for Head Six. I still think she’s just a “figment” of Baltar’s mind – but I appreciate your theory, too. And it would be cool, although I’m not sure I can picture the show eventually pinning so much on what is, arguably, a minor plot device (so that Roslin can have visions). But who knows, they have certainly surprised me before.

Dang, I wish I had picked up on that “shape of things to come” comment! Maybe Roslin really is the final Cylon. I wonder what difference it would make to things if the dying leader of Pythian prophecy turns out to be a Cylon! Would it unite humans and Cylons because the Cylon Roslin turned out to be foretold in Pythia? (And I would love to know the origin of the Scriptures, too – but I bet that would take us too far afield).

The title “The Shape of Things to Come,” of course, was used by H.G. Wells for his 1933 utopian/fictional history book, envisioning the world in 2016. I haven’t read the book, to be honest, and the plot summary on Wikipedia doesn’t have any overt links to BSG. It’s a very evocative phrase, though, and I am not sure it was original with Wells, either.

Maybe H.G. Wells is the author of some of the Colonial Scripture? :wink:

#13

I also like the chamalla theory. One modification or addition I would add is that I think the 6th sense only takes affect once the RTF has left the 12 Colonies. It would be hard to believe that the Oracles could have always been so accurate , and yet there are A) atheists within Colonial society or B) that it would have been a better utilized phenomenon (i.e., the CIC Oracle standing by). I suspect (but of course have no evidence) that the accuracy of the Oracles is a relatively recent phenomenon. They may be tapping into what ever the hybrids are use to generate their prophecies. In addition, failure to detect or appropriately use the 6th Sense while on the Colonies would fit with the Scrolls of Pythia stating how they had offended the Gods and therefore were cast out from the Eden that was Kobol. It seems the 6th Sense has only gotten stronger as they first approached Kobal and now as they are approaching Earth.

#14

Grand Puba, thanks to you, Mike P, Phil, and Kappa for the awesome feedback and discussion!

I remain decisively undecided about whether Head Six is a “figment.” The writers have made her deliberately ambiguous. So much so that to take a strong position either way (that she is or is not a figment) is to dismiss a great deal of evidence to the contrary. Unless the series ends with the ambiguity unresolved (a distinct possibility), I think the writers will have to find a middle way that allows her to be a product of Baltar’s mind and, at the same time, something much more than that.

Chamalla may have started out as a minor plot device, but the visions have become a major one, and it’s not just Roslin who’s having them. We have her, Baltar, Cylons, and presumably Hybrids and Oracles not just having visions but the same Vision. We have several disparate individuals coming to the Opera House from seemingly disparate paths. I think a good storyteller would weave unity out of the apparent disparity, revealing a hidden commonality underlying chamalla-induced visions, Baltar visions, and Cylon visions. I hope that Season 4 will give that to us, in some form.

I completely agree, and I hope the writers have thought through the implications of introducing such incredibly credible oracles. I suppose another “out” could be that the Oracles’ omniscience is limited to big-destiny topics, like Hera and Starbuck. But I like your explanation better.

Kappa, you nailed the most important corollary to my theory: in principle, humans could download too if they had a matching, “unoccupied” body waiting in a tub of goo, which I’m guessing functions to amplify reception from the Opera House/place between life and death/fifth dimension/what have you. (Clearly we need a more concise term for this. Maybe Opera-House Dimension, OH Dimension, or Oh Dimension?)

The major narrative movement in the series so far has been to continuously blur the line between humans and Cylons. Really the only significant difference remaining is this ability to download. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if this distinction too gets blurred in Season 4.

#15

My (current) preferred explanation is that Head Six really is some form of external influence from a third party (neither main Cylon contingent nor Baltar). My reasoning for her being external is that I don’t see how Baltar could have intuited the impending birth of Hera while he was still on Kobol and Sharron and Helo were still on Caprica. That being said I still think Baltar’s psychology goes a long way in determining the manifestation of the Head Six. If some third party starts beaming thoughts into his brain to help him survive and to provide him information regarding his destiny, it would make sense that it would be interpreted in the form of Six. The same goes for Caprica Six’s Head Baltar, and Starbuck’s Head Leoben, maybe. I think Sean has made many good points during the podcast, but because the “Heads” appear to reflect manifestations of their host’s psychology doesn’t exclude for me the possibility that their origin could still be external.

BTW, how does one put the little “Spoiler” shield over message text?

#16

I don’t know that this is the fact of the matter; mostly, I just like the sound of it:

Head Six = A Gazoo?

Seriously, though, maybe it’d be good to list the possibilities:

Are Head Six/Baltar/Starbuck/Jake…

  • Gazoos: Real, nobody-else-can-see-them sentient creatures

  • Psychological manifestations of the subconscious (but if so, what does Head Baltar say about the existence/lack thereof of Head Six)?

  • Projections from another source or sources? And if so, from whom?

  • Acutal psychological imprints of the near & dearly departed? Which might be possible because we’re really all Cylons?

  • Some kind of wi-fi manifestions of chamalla-conveyed Cylon-ness? Does that make sense the way I said it?

What else is there?

ps. EJO watch: Olmos’ “American Me” is on cable this month. Haven’t seen the whole thing, and I’ve got TiVo full of stuff I need to get to, but I caught the end. PapaDama plays a gang lord turned imprisoned gang lord.

#17

Hey, Phil – use these tags around your text: [spoiler] when starting and [/spoiler] when done.

For example: in Season Four, we will learn that Head Six is actually [spoiler] one of the farmhands on Aunt Em’s farm in Kansas. [/spoiler] :slight_smile:

#18

Whoops! I didn’t mean to have two spoilers in that message.

The start tag is the word “spoiler” within brackets. The end tag is the same, only with a backslash (/) in front of the word “spoiler.”

#19

Hey Mike P,

[spoiler]Thanks![/spoiler]

#20

Props to Jason for the first really interesting new theory I’ve been presented with in a while! Mmmmm… I like it.