GWC Podcast #67

This week we cover Razor Flashback #2, the current rewatch episode The Captain’s Hand, and (as always) lots, lots more. Highlights: We discuss the flashbacks vs. the pre-season-three webisodes and their classification as “episodes” (and therefore spoilers), enjoy seeing a Viper in a whatever-isode, question the heritage of young Adama’s blue eyes, wonder what derogatory term “toasters” call humans when we’re not around, debate the existence of non-combatant Cylons, disagree with the ever-popular “Battlestar Iraqtica” moniker, hypothesize that Roslin’s “don’t interfere with the birth of a child” order might outlaw contraceptives as well, lament Adama’s instant willingness to muck about in civilian affairs, issue a less-rant-more-sense follow up on our Starship Troopers bash in response to a caller, talk Klingon western shirts and the safety of DS9 promenade merchants, and veer off topic to Firefly, Casino Royale, and the Queen’s love of Daniel Craig. Note: Next week’s podcast will post on Tuesday instead of Sunday because of scheduling constraints.

http://www.galacticawatercooler.com/2007/10/14/gwc-podcast-67/

downloading now. i will be dissapointed if:
a) one of my threads is not discussed.
b) one of my calls is not played or discussed
c) i in gerneral am not discussed.

I’m all about me.

just kidding about a & b, or course. :smiley:

:smiley:

poo. itunes won’t download it yet :frowning:

If you’re subscribed, your copy of iTunes should grab it directly from the feed. Try right-clicking the podcast in the “podcasts” listing and selecting “update podcast.” That made it download for me immediately. iTunes may take up to 48 hours after we “ping” them to run their update daemon that makes things show up right in the 'cast itself.

And, of course, you can grab it from the site directly at any time with the “download” link. There’s no difference in the file (or the source).

Update: And I think we mentioned Femtroopers briefly, though I can’t remember for sure. It was a long 'cast.

#67 doesn’t even show up for me on itunes :frowning:

Well I should first of all admit my personal belief. I’m pro life, but it was; and is a long a hard decision that I still struggle with, but in the end my personnel belief is I don’t know when a bunch of cells becomes a living soul, so I couldn’t personally condone abortion. In case it is a person, but I can truly see both sides of the debate, and I have a very real trouble with my stance.

Was it moral for her to stop abortion, (God if I know???) truth is If society itself is about to be wiped out just about anything is permissible and necessary, that doesn’t involve torture and murder

But I don’t think you can port this to regular society, because we are not in the same situation, as our species isn’t at the edge of extinction

As for BSG being a direct comparison to Iraq, well I think you all got it right, it comments on society today, but not directly, it simple reflects modern society. But it’s not a direct comparison, one way or another.

SO to finish, I’ll simply say the ideal night of Galactica drinking buddies for me; now are,
Doc Coddle,
tigh,
and brother cavil.

We all wouldn’t survive but it would be fun… literally

Drama Queen !!!

I have not put thoughts together like this for a while:

Audra on Adama’s tenure on the Galactica
In a deleted scene from Valley of Darkness Adama told Tigh that he had served on Galactica during the first Cylon War. Adama was mustered out at war’s end and then got back in which was followed by him dragging Tigh back in.

Name for the humans
Considering the number of former Star Trek writers associated with BSG and the constant references in that universe to Buckaroo Banzai I am honestly waiting for a “Monkeyboy” reference in Razor or elsewhere.

Non-combatant Cylons
This was explored outside the televised continuity in the novel The Cylons’ Secret. See http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/The_Cylons%27_Secret. Razor will nuke this one pretty badly, I suppose? It was a pretty good read.

Battlestar Iraqtica
BSG as political propaganda? Life is too short. I agree with Chuck’s reasoning as well as Audra’s that this is art reflecting our world. Then again, I consider This American Life pretty screwed up at the moment too, alas. If Audra could have teased out an explanation about the notion of “the Other” in cultural constructs such would have been uniquely interesting. In today’s heavily polarized American culture even utilizing the notion of “the Other” could result in viewer appropriation to the point of creating new meaning whether or not the creator intended such.

Contraceptives and Starbuck
Starbuck is still missing an ovary, alas. As to the ship hypothesized by Chuck…I would not be surprised if it existed.

The absence of Billy
You know, an entire alternate look at the second season in a mirror universe with Billy still living would be an interesting bit of fanfic. I doubt anybody has tried that yet, though.

Decrees and the Quorum of Twelve
Good call by Audra. This is part of the degeneration into an armed gang on the run more than anything else. Intentionally the role of the Quorum is left vague, I suppose. Of course, that consultation could have happened off-screen too.

Lee’s remark about “federal regulations” in the episode kinda points out clearly that the Colonies were structured as a federal system when the planets that the colonies were based on were still habitable. Roslin ends up as the fount of justice in the fleet and in the end serves a structural role akin to the Queen of the UK as the keystone holding the system together. Roslin having the military’s backing yet a Quorum to deal with makes the political structure of the Fleet akin to England pre-1400, actually.

Pegasus staff making good decisions
I hope we see some good decisions out of the Pegasus marines in Razor. In what has been seen of Pegasus marines and other staff…decision-making is not a strong point it appears?

Monday Night Halo Virtual Meet-up
Any hope of posting such movies for viewing akin to what is posted for Red vs. Blue and The Spartan Life?

My two notes, First about Billy.
I don’t think Billy being alive would have changed anything for the election, because Laura was winning until the issue about landing on New Caprica came up, and then Baltar had it. So would Billy have done a better job of fixing the election? I doubt it. I don’t think that he would have gone along with the idea of fixing the election because it would have been unethical. Look how he acted when he broke Laura out of jail, he didn’t join her because she was going to splinter the fleet. And I don’t think he has the experience to try to fix the election. Tori’s plan was working until Gaita found the wrong ballots, and then Adama put the guilt trip on Laura. So Billy would have put the guilt trip before the election and no experience in carrying out the plan lead me to believe that him dieing was the best chance for the fleet.

Item two, competant crew on Pegasus:
Anyone that knew what they were doing were killed, either by Cain directly or by her actions. That tends to discourage competance in everyone else.

Hi all, I have to admit I’m not really listening to the podcasts anymore. I will start again at Razor. But I skimmed through this latest one to hear you all talk about the new Season 4 trailer, which is infinitely more important than the minisodes. But I was surprised that I didn’t hear anything. Did you discuss it in the last episode? Did I miss something?

Nope, it did not come up.

Chuck is right re: the fact that Galactica is interested in pondering major social and political issues, not make a simple and cheap statement about some political issue or another. War has been ugly since humans eliminated Neanderthals; it’s not like it became hideous in Faluja or in the 20th Century. All you need to do is read the Greeks to see that Iraq, metaphorically speaking, has been with us from the very beginning. All of the themes pondered on BSG have been there from the start, even the dreaded and seemingly very modern abortion issue. That’s another thing that makes this show so frakking good. Taking Chuck’s point further, it’s the universality of the issues that strike deep chords. I remember reading an interview with Moore in which he denied that the New Caprica thread was a straight take on Iraq. In his mind, Vichy (occupied) France was the more relevant real world context.

Then was it mentioned in the last episode? It’s inconceivable they didn’t know about it (I learned about it on this forum myself).

I know for a fact the GWC crew could talk about this preview for at least an hour and a half! :smiley: …so many questions are brought up in this preview.

PS yes that actor’s eyes are totally contacts. That is exactly how blue contacts look like on people with dark eyes…fake! But he is doing Olmos pretty well though, not only does he have the facial scarring, there at the very end in the tube the expression he made with his mouth was dead on.

The march of the Centurions depicted in Lay Down Your Burdens Part II would tend to set something like that up. The relationship between Baltar’s administration and the Cylon Occupation Authority mirrors the administration of Petain in an interesting way.

According to a countdown I have running we have one month, one week, and two days until Razor airs. Until we see that even touching that promo with a bargepole would be problematic. Razor is supposed to set up some storylines that will pay off in the fourth season. Without that we honestly may be missing some pieces in talking about that fairly strange and seemingly deliberately ambiguous promotional piece for the fourth season.

Didn’t the Razor trailer get its own podcast pretty much?
Also, we’re missing pieces with the minisodes too.

The fact that the editing of the Season 4 preview is choppy gives so much room for speculation and talk.

Point well taken. One of the issues discussed in the podcast is the rather anomalous status of these “Flashbacks”. Are they stand-alone pieces? Do they create a single story arc when taken together? Are these pieces from the cutting room floor that were excised from Razor for time?

Sean rubbished the notion that the individual flashback pieces could be considered similar in structure to the extreme form of short story known as “flash fic”. Chuck (if memory serves) raised the point at one moment or another that in the December DVD release of Razor these clips will be re-integrated into the story where they were meant to be. Audra noted having trouble looking at these as being sufficiently stand-alone.

My view of the matter is odd. As the “Flashbacks” are just pieces of Razor that were cut for broadcast timing then I am regarding things now as a two-month long slow motion frak party. We are getting eight scenes of the show before we get the rest of the story shown. As the eight scenes plus what will air the week of Thanksgiving are being released on DVD as a coherent whole I just regard this as bizarre planning on Sci-Fi’s part that winds up annoying people rather than stoking interest. As such I agree with the discussion at the start of the last podcast about how The Episode That Must Not Be Named should remain in its place in the disclaimer as we have only started the slow-motion multi-part episode known as Razor and it cannot displace The Episode That Must Not Be Named until November 25th at the earliest. As we are in the middle of a multi-part episode that wants to be considered instead a “telemovie” that does not fall in either the third or fourth seasons I would consider the time not being ripe myself for discussing that promotional piece for the fourth season.

I think that both Nico Cortez (correct me if I’m wrong on the name) and EJO wear contact lenses. I was curious about this before and noticed other pictures of EJO that show him with brown eyes. I wonder why they decided to portray Adama with blue eyes. Was it simply an actor’s choice or was it suggested by the producers? I don’t think it is necessary to make me believe that Bill and Lee are father and son. I wonder if there was some other reason, or is it just an artistic choice?

Whew…really long podcast, but worth every minute. I’m not a huge fan of Captain’s Hand, despite the flashy space battles (upside-down landings are frakking awesome!), but it sure gives us a lot to talk about.

I have to disagree that Adama was plotting his move from the get go. I just didn’t get that feeling from him. I think he was disgruntled that there were stowaways coming onto his ship regularly, and he didn’t know about it. Remember that Adama believes strongly in civil rights because of his father (I know it’s intimated that they had a difficult relationship, but in Litmus I think we still got the impression that this was a high value of his). When he and Roslin discussed the idea of banning abortion, it was with a kind of resignation on his part and certainly shock on hers. Both seemed very grave in that scene, and I think they both knew what they were getting into.

True, Adama could have handled the stowaway more wisely and less gruffly, and could Roslin have handled her decision to ban abortion more carefully. If I may step out-of-universe for a moment, I think the press conference announcement was written simply for dramatic effect and expediency. It certainly would have been more appropriate for Roslin to bring a proposal before the Quorum, but this would have eaten up story and screen time, as well as budget. Putting the pressure on Roslin to make the decision on her own was the dramatically stronger choice, but as I think all the Three pointed out, it was sloppy politics. Having Roslin and Adama act as quickly and extremely as they did made for a powerful story, but perhaps not great leadership. Maybe their real problem is that they’re both drama queens? :wink:

In the same vein, while Roslin and Adama represented an extreme reaction to the problem, I felt Sarah Porter was just as extremely portrayed. The whole “it is an abomination to the gods” and “she is her parents’ property” bits were way over the top and just as unnecessary to get the point across as Roslin’s quick executive decision. More dramatic, maybe, but as Audra pointed out, having the girl simply be under her parents’ authority as a minor and therefore not legally able to make this choice would have been just as effective. And most religious folk who are pro-life–okay, Christians–are such not because there’s a specific verse in the Bible that says abortion is an abomination, but because they glean a general principle from it that life is important. Like Nickname Boomer, I’m pro-life, but I’m not sure exactly when the soul pops into being. It’s all kind of a mystery, and I suppose I err on the side of caution.

You have to give BSG props for jumping into an issue like this and coming to such a dramatic conclusion with it, but it’s the extremes that Sarah, Roslin, and Adama go to that made the episode feel weakly written to me. But I guess sensible people don’t make good drama. They do, however, make a great podcast.


In other news…

Alpaca Herder said:
As the eight scenes plus what will air the week of Thanksgiving are being released on DVD as a coherent whole I just regard this as bizarre planning on Sci-Fi’s part that winds up annoying people rather than stoking interest.

Ditto. I’ll certainly watch all the flashbacks as soon as they’re posted to scifi.com (“immediately” after Flash Gordon), but they’re stale drops of water in a long, long desert.

Last summer I was at the the NY Museum of Television & Radio’s BSG event. They showed Lay Down Your Burdens and then had a panel with Ron Moore, David Eick, Edward James Olmos, Mary McDonnell and Jamie Bamber. It was pretty interesting.

At one point, Jamie Bamber mentioned he darkens his hair and EJO wears blue contact lenses to further sell the father-son thing.