I have read many a ST book in my time but I could not quote where i get my information.
Yeah, I went looking for the Arm Porn thread and couldn’t find it (stupid vBulletin search…) But the gutter is certainly equal-opportunity these days.
And the goggles, they do nothing.
I figured the obvious similarities between Vulcans and Romulans were partially explained by the TOS episode where the crew finds the last surviving consciousnesses from an alien race preserved in a few glowing orbs. One of them (Sargon, IIRC) refers to the crew as their children. Kirk replies that he couldn’t mean humans because we clearly evolved on Earth, but Spock mentions how that would explain some of Vulcan history. So maybe the orbites were the ancestors of both Romulans and Vulcans…
Although, this now contradicts the TNG episode where multiple species (Humans, Romulans, Vulcans, Klingons, Cardassians etc) all have genetic sequences preserved in their DNA that combine into a tricorder program to produce a hologram explaining that the humanoid bauplan was seeded into the DNA of different planets’ fauna by the first humanoid species in the galaxy (which looks suspiciously like the founders 
).
Then again, now that I think about it, I can’t remember if the Vulcans were actually involved independently of the Romulans. If not the two episodes could still be compatible…
The TOS isn’t clear on Romulan origin.
As for Diane, Actually She started with my enemy, my ally. and proceeded that Rihannsu arc through 5 books published between 1985 and 2006. ( Spock’s world was like 1987 and refranced these works)
These novels tell that the romulans left vulcan about 1500-2000 years prior to TOS. They ARE vulcans ( biologicaly) however 1500 years of evolution on a different planet has changed them slightly. ( not the ridges thing… more on that later)
Following these novels being printed FASA’s officialy licensed Trek game and source material accepted this as Star trek fact.
every RPG source ever officialy licensed has said that Romulans are vulcans that left vulcan and formed their own society. They get this information from the official “Bible” that is given to them by paramount. ( referance Steven Long, former writer for both Decipher and Last unicorn games) It’s vauge… but it says that much. Just that they are an offshoot of vulcans and left vulcan “many hundreds of years prior to TOS”
But all of this is moot because Romulans comeing from vulcan IS cannon. In Unification TOS the Romulan guy and Spock speak of “RE-unification”. If they had never been unified… they couldn’t very well be Re-unified.
In Star trek Enterprise “Kir’Shara” V’Las asks Talok what will happen now that their operation has failed; Talok replies, “The reunification of our people is only a matter of time.”
Same goes for the Star Trek: Enterprise episode “Awakening” includes a line from the long-deceased Surak referring to the enemies of logic in his time as “those who marched beneath the raptor’s wing”; this would appear to be a reference to the symbol of the Romulan Empire.) The commentary from the episodes states that this is indeed an obvious reference to the romulans.
as for the Ridges. In TOS Romulans looked Identical to Vulcans. In TNG’s first season the Romulans got the ridges. Then during the summer they show Star Trek 5: Romulan with no ridges. Then a few years of TNG and they have ridges. Then a year later Star trek 6 shows the Romulan ambasador with no ridges. ( while unification airs a few weeks before st:6 with romulans haveing the ridges). Just a stupid costume mistake. In cannon I guess some have them… and some don’t. Maybe they had a virus!!!
There’s a set of Diane Duane Star Trek novels that really delves into Romulan history and origin. And she even gives the Romulan’s their own name for themselves “Rihannsu” (Romulan being the Federation bastardization of their race’s name.)
I agree with you Chuck, that Star Trek “canon” is kinda all over the place.
But Diane Duane has a nice take on the Romulans.
Here’s the deal:
(And this is not completely consistent with Enterprise Vulcan stuff or with Nemesis Romulan stuff).
(and this is from memory, so I may get some things wrong).
In the days of Surak (the leader of the Vulcan peace movement), Surak had a brother named S’Harien. S’harien was a master sword maker.
S’Harien opposed the Surak peace movement of Surak, and I forget the details, but out of some stubborn honor thing, S’Harien would not allow his people to war with Surak, and S’harien and his people instead built many big space vessels and they left Vulcan to find another place to call home. There were maybe 12 ships, with 1000s of Vulcans on each. And these ships did NOT have FTL drives. They were intended as generation ships—essentially it would take generations (they knew) to get to a suitable planet.
So, the since all those opposed to peace left Vulcan, the remaining Surak followers easily thrived and became the peaceful, logical, emotion-repressing Vulcans that we know “today”.
Meanwhile, the S’harien colony ships travel through space, looking for a home. Many ships were lost. But S’herien’s ship made it to the planet now known as Romulus (Rihan) (and Remus (C’Hiran)). But remember now, the ship DID NOT have FTL drives. So, just like the final five in BSG, relativistic time meant that thousands of years past on Vulcan, while much fewer years past aboard S’Harien ships. As a result, S’Harien’s people (who we now know as Rihannsu (Romulans)) have a much more primitive sensibility than Vulcans—and you could even retcon in that they could look physically a little different (foreheads) because Vulcans are literally more evolved than Romulans.
Anyway, here’s are the Diane Duane novels to read to get to know Romulans:
Spock’s World (not really part of the series, but fits into it.)
- My Enemy, My Ally
- The Romulan Way
- Sword Hunt
- Honor Blade (Oct 2000) (ends on a cliff hanger “To Be Continued”)
And then, thankfully, Diane Duane finally finishes the series years later in 2006 with
- The Empty Chair
And in Jan 2007, all 5 novels were collected together in one volume entitled: The Bloodwing Voyages
I highly recommend.
LOL! GWC Hive Mind at work again. I was busy writing my post about the Diane Duane Rihannsu novels at the same time your were posting that.
Cool.
LOL ! I bet if we had a super huge frak party we would all find out that we had all been to the same used bookstore at some point!
Well, at the risk of showing my age, I must reveal: I bought each of those books brand new the year each was published.:o
Yeah, I bought most of the good ones new ( I was in 6th grade for The Vulcan Academy Murders but was reading trek novels reguarly), but i bought the ones that looked cheesey, used.
I really liked the Yesterday’s Son arc… but I hijack. I’m starting a trek books thread.
Back on subject of the podcast…
Speaking of the Worf/Dax marriage thing.
This is the only movie where they treat Worf (briefly in the Defiant) as if he has had any character development during DS9.
Worf lost his wife just a few weeks before Insurection, And is the federation Ambasador to the Klingon Empire during Nemisis. The Next Gen Movies just ignore these developments in his character. He’s just the visiting Tactical Officer.
In Insurection… he’s distraught over a pimple. No nod at all to his recent loss of wife. and In Nemisis… he’s just showing up on the bridge for duty!
As for the Defiant at the beggining of this movie. The Defiant crew is evacuated to the Enterprise. Surely some of the crew was dead… cause worf was to the point of ramming the cube. Probably many of the crew that made it to the Enterprise were assimulated by the Borg. How pisssed is Sisko that A) he didn’t get to get into any Borg Revenge. I would think that he would have a better case for revenge than Picard. HE, Jake , and his wife were at Wolf 359… and his wife was killed!
and B) Worf pretty much got the defiant knocked down and a good chunck of the crew assimulated.
Can’t be a big welcome home afterwards!
Good idea. I’m notorious for thread drifting. So good call starting a new thread.
Yes! Yesterday’s Son is an awesome book–along with its sequel Time for Yesterday. These are books that the GWC Trek Tarts (GWCers who are watching TOS for the first time) will enjoy (particularly cuz many of them are Spock fans).
But they should watch the episode All Our Yesterdays first.
Arrgh! See? I already frakked up continuing the Trek novels discussion on this thread. Bad thot. Bad.
Well, very nearly so, though:
Spock (in “Balance of Terror”): … and if the Romulans are offshoots of my Vulcan blood, and I think this likely…
So it’s never 100% established as FACT, I guess, but it’s pretty much … um… “implictly explicit” ?
Crispin’s 2 Yesterday’s Son novels are still among my favorites, too. I read the sequel while my family was moving from North Carolina to Texas, and it was like being at home with my make-believe Trek friends to read Time for Yesterday during the transition.
I can’t recall a 'cast in recent memory in which I laughed along with you three so constantly, and with such enjoyment.
From Sandy’s Blog:
Sigh. Oh, well. Another wasted first date. Chrissy told me about this guy and she said he was a real “wind-bag.” Turns out that wasn’t what I thought it mean. Oh, well. At least I assimilated his species.
But that means another night with me, a pint of Ben & Jerry’s, and Mr. Ceiling Fan. Again.
[Sniff] I love you guys, maaaan!
= Moist
=Sweaty, and Leathery
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Regarding the high density of Space Cougars in the Star Trek universe: If they could regrow a kidney with a pill circa ST IV, imagine how advanced hormone replacement therapy must be by TNG era…
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From a fella who didn’t hardly watch DS9 or Voyager (and now feels like he really should), here’s a question for y’all experts and expanded universe buffs:
Has anyone ever weaponized the transporters? Seems like they’d be a swell toy for wreaking havoc. Even if you can’t teleport through shields, still… You could put plenty of things into places they shouldn’t be. Or remove even mere slivers of big things that are otherwise well-fortified, and kaboom!
You are not alone.
I am so going to do a poll on the age range for the fourm…
It’s already been done. Search Off-Topic for 2 of them.
Probably good idea to do a new age poll. At this point many of us can’t remember the previous ones…