GWC Podcast #161: Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country

Podcasts Galactic Watercooler
#21

Chuck, I think maybe you are thinking of something out of Dune? Don’t the Fremen ingest the melange in small quantities over time to avoid being poisioned by it, or something? I dunno, but I have no memory of a Vulcan ritual poison – would be fascinating if so, though.

There may have been no death cry for Gorkon (setting aside the prosaic real-world explanations, of course) because Gorkon was manifestly not a warrior – he was treating for peace, after all – and the death cry is designed to let Sto-Vo-Kor know a great warrior is on the way. We don’t know how, in TOS era, Klingons ascended to the Chancellorship. Maybe they had to fight their way up, but we just don’t know.

Also, of course, the “Klingon death cry” may be something only certain “sects” or “denominations” of Klingons do. One of the persistent flaws in Trek is showing us planets and species that have one and only one way of doing things. Maybe some Klingons do it, and some don’t.

As far as I am concerned, Klingons will always have purple blood. I don’t care if it is consistent or not, in this case – it looks cool!

Gotta go with Sean – K’Eylar (sp?) the hottest Klingon woman, even if she isn’t Klingon through and through. Amazingly, that same actress, Suzie Plakson, was the Vulcan Doctor in the TNG episode where Dr. Graves implants his consciousness in Data – second season, I am forgetting both the episode name and Plakson’s character’s name. You’d almost never guess it was the same actor.

#22

That would be Dr. Selar, Mike. She’s a very popular character in Star Trek novels and other “EU”-type fiction. I think she’s a major character in the New Frontier series.

#23

If I am not mistaken in the EU Novels, Admiral Uhura was director of Starfleet Intelligence throughout the Dominion War.

Also, I read the Section 31 novels, and would not be surprised if Section 31 was behind the whole thing. I can’t take complete credit for that idea, since I feel like I have read it somewhere before, that if Section 31 wasn’t directly involved, that it may have had a hand in the events.

#24

How is that even possible? She’d be like 140-something years old!

#25

140 is the new 65.

#26

snort

Or the new 82.

#27

As we have 3 weeks until the new movie and have the time to include and ‘odd’ Star Trek film in the discussion, I’m surprised you guys have opted for Insurrection over Generations. No sweat really, I’m just curious about the thinking. Generations certainly isn’t the best Trek movie, but a lot of pivotal stuff happens in it.

#28

In the DS9 relaunch novels, they have a human commander who’s 100 years old. And a very old McCoy appeared in “Farpoint,” even if he wasn’t explicity named as such. For my favorite book depicting Uhura as head of SI, check out Catalyst of Sorrows (it also features an early Beverly Crusher, Ben Sisko, and Tuvok). She’s described as enlisting the covert services of communications officers all over the Fleet, calling them her Listeners. They keep their ears out for any interesting information flying through the subspace ether, and send it her way. It’s a very cool idea. I like how naturally the job segues from her famous career as a communications officer. It’s also stated that even in her old age, she sticks to her short skirt and makes it work, just to frak with people and distract them from her more serious work. Go, girl.

#29

I think they’re following “even numbers are best” rule. It’s not, as you note, perfect. It’s a good rule of thumb, however, and one that Trekkies are familiar with.

#30

Yes, I completely buy into the ‘evens’ are best rule, and thought that there were only going to be enough weeks for the them. However, if there’s an extra week for one odd, I’m surprised they picked IX over VII. Even as a confirmed trekkie, I saw IX once in the theater and while I remember having a decent time I don’t really recall much about the movie and haven’t been particularly moved to watch it since. I’ll certainly give it another go though. Given Kirk dies, Data gets the emotion chip and curses, and the E-D crash lands twice, I just figured VII would be ripe for discussion…

#31

The Fremen eat melange because it is basically in everything on Dune and it helps give their reverend mothers special abilities (at least I think).

The poison that is being referred to in the podcast is, I believe, from the Klingon Tea Ceremony. In the second season of ST:TNG in one of the episodes Dr. Polaski helps Worf hide the fact that he is suffering from a Klingon childhood ailment from the rest of the crew. In return for this favor, Worf takes Dr. Polaski through a Tea Ceremony that includes ingredients that are fatal to humans (but merely very painful to Klingons). Dr. Polaski injects herself with an antidote for the poison (but not for the pain) so that she can fully appreciate the Klingon Tea Ceremony.

#32

Hmmm…there appears to be a little surprise at the very end of the podcast.

Fascinating. :smiley:

#33

In fact, the Efrosian president’s name is Ra-Ghoratreii, according to the novel Articles_of_the_Federation.

When I heard the Star Trek VI movie was called “The Undiscovered Country”, I assumed it had something to do with death, since that’s what the line in Hamlet’s soliloquy is referring to (“from whose bourne no traveller returns”). I was pleased to discover on IMDB that it was the original title of The Wrath of Khan before the producers wanted Khan in the title, a highfalutin foreshadowing of the death of Spock.

Also according to IMDB, Shatner made a hand-waving gesture after he said “Let them die”, to signify that he didn’t really mean it, and the director promised to put it in, but he double-crossed him by cutting it. In revenge, Shatner took him up on an offer of $20 for every bite of Klingon food a cast member took (squid with blue food colouring), and made $340 off him.

Oh yeah, and Christian Slater was the casting director’s son, hence his cameo.

Treacle is a sugar syrup somewhere between corn syrup and molasses in taste and darkness. There’s a recurring joke in British literature about treacle wells and treacle mines.

The Statue of Liberty is 93 meters tall, including the pedestal. So yeah, about a football field.

#34

Chuck mentioned a spoon that was sitting on the President’s all by itself. Audra said that a set dresser would never leave that there. I beg to differ. I worked in the Theatre for close to 15 years, when you do the same show 8 times a week over and over again you try and brake the boredom anyway you can. I would help setup the stage before each show and we would hide a rubber chicken somewhere onstage. We did this to try and get the actors to brake character and laugh. Some of the actors would make it a point to look for the rubber chicken when they weren’t doing anything important onstage. I know not very professional but it pasted the long boring shows.

I too can’t wait for the next Audra Boob report.:smiley:

#35

Regarding the “Quadrant” problem, I recall reading that Federation space is bisected by the line between the Alpha and Beta quadrants with Earth right ON the line. So being the only ship in the quadrant doesn’t have to mean “the only ship within a quarter-galaxy” so much as “the only ship within THIS quarter galaxy, but the line is right over there, and there are ships over there too.”

#36

Oh, yeah. I LOL’d at that one :smiley: I love the little surprises!

#37

That is the most frakking awesome Uhura premise I’ve ever heard. What an awesome series that would be! She’d be sort of like the “Oracle” of the Star Trek universe (only not, y’know, crippled by the Joker in a misogynistic comic book by Alan Moore).

LOL, I didn’t know (or had forgotten) about the Klingon food business, but you can see Shatner’s attempt to mitigate Kirk’s line on the DVD extras. His handwaving is well-intentioned but a bit much, and Meyer was right to cut it. To be fair, though, you can see the tail end of Shatner’s gesture when the camera cuts back to Kirk, and it is enough of a hint, combined with his facial expression, to convey the same thought – namely, that Kirk regretted his words. Even if he hadn’t regretted them in that moment, I have no problem believing (given Kirk’s character in that film, if not over the course of the entire series) that he would say such a thing in anger. Old School Kirk said lots of rash things he later toned down (e.g., his arguing that the Organians should let him and Kor fight in “Errand of Mercy,” toned down after a bit to, “Well, nobody wants war…”)

Kirk was really broken up by David’s death more than we knew at the time – I guess Spock’s resurrection overshadowed all else at the time. But here’s a son he never knew he had, and who represents his regrets re: his roads not taken, and who he is having trouble getting along with, and who is taken away from him violently before they have a chance to reconcile – man, David’s tenure in the Trek universe was brief, but all kinds of loss and grief are wrapped up in that boy. No problem believing that Kirk would say, in a heated moment, of the Klingons, “Let them die!” It rings true, even if it’s not Roddenberry’s shiny happy Federation.

#38

Yeah, I’m unapologetically pro-Spock. It’s like the man said in “A Taste of Armageddon,” he can understand the crazy mathematical war apparatus but that doesn’t mean he agrees with it. I’m like that with Kirk. I can understand why he is the way he is, and why that is really appealing to a lot of people, but I don’t participate in that attitude towards Kirk.

(woohoo name mention)

I really enjoyed VI, but I’m not sure I prefer it over the 2-3-4 arc.

All readers of Harry Potter will recall the Treacle Tarts served at Hogwarts :slight_smile: I personally am not a fan of the name (it sounds like something with legs), but it’s sooooooooo sweet that it quite satisfies my sweet tooth :slight_smile:

#39

@ 1:33:33 Chuck mentions being voted least memorable in High School.

Me too.

You’re in good company.

I’m not even in my High School yearbook. It’s as if I never existed. spooky music

#40

Nice to come out from lurking. Welcome aboard Frakkintalos!