Up this week is BSG’s season 4.5 episode Blood on the Scales. Joined by Kate Vernon, we discuss Tom Zarek’s final disposition in the good/evil continuum (and lament the loss of the good ideas in which he sadly didn’t believe), note that the Quorum were thankfully not sheep, enjoy how yet again the trust Tyrol inspires in those around him plays a prominent role in crushing the coup, wonder whether Laura believed Adama alive or dead as she maneuvered with the cylons, fear for the (treated like mushrooms) fleet now that Roslin represents almost the entirety of the civilian government, analyze Gaeta’s motives and mistakes, worry that political brinkmanship may continue to hasten the end of the fleet, hear Ms. Vernon’s awesome insight into Ellen Tigh, and look forward to Ellen’s return to BSG next week.
Hey, it looks like the Big Three’s uncanny interview picking has worked in the opposite direction this time. Way to go!
Can’t wait to get home and listen to the 'cast!
I dunno, it seems like the delay is getting longer from interview until death… Zarek dies this week, and possibly Anders next…
Granted we have Ellen coming back, but how long until she is killed again? 
No kidding! I was actually half-expecting an interview with Alessandro Juliani, considering the “GWC interview=death” track record thus far. But, I love Kate Vernon and Ellen, too, so I’m definitely looking forward to the 'cast!
For the record, Captain Kelly is an original character from the mini-series…he may even be in the first scene walking down a hall with Adama. He was a CIC officer and eventually was revealed as the person trying to blow up Baltar before his day in court. I thought it was very cool that they brought him back, which makes sense…they sprung him from jail.
I know this is awful and probably makes me a bad person - but I really don’t care about the civilian fleet. I mean - I DO. I don’t want the human race to die out. But - the civilian fleet is just not in my monkey sphere. They have never been shown enough for me to really care about them. The people on Galactica and colonial one are real people to me and they are the ones I truly care about. I want to know what happens to them. I guess that’s why when I listen to the podcast and all the talk about how bad a job Adama and Roslin are doing and how we need real democracy - I just have a hard time getting fired up about it. I know that they need to step up but that aspect isn’t really my focus at this point - I just want these characters that I’ve grown to love to be happy. I know that’s probably not what I’ll get in the end, folks gotta die on BSG.
And I’m just so glad that Zarek and Gaeta are gone.
I just have to say before I listen to this that I am fraking happy those Aholes got killed.
Off to listen to the podcast!! 
I’ve gotta say … and I’ve intimated at it on the FTL thread … that I think y’all are right on about the Big G being “the dying leader” that will take lead humanity (in all its new and wondrous forms) to a new home. After all, it does lead the fleet and, from what we’ve seen in this latest episode, it’s dying. Of course, considering the pounding it’s taken to this point, it’s been dying for a WHILE.
Still rough, tough and potentially very, very angry … but dying under the strain.
Worse yet - she’ll lead them to their new home, but won’t make it herself. I only hope she goes out like the Pegasus. Which, of course, means she won’t.
For the record, Captain Kelly is an original character from the mini-series…he may even be in the first scene walking down a hall with Adama.
Yeah, he was. In fact the first time we see him, didn’t he tell Adama how proud he was to serve with him (as did Geata, if memory serves…). So Kelly showing up a as mutineer was a huge “Aw, man this is bad,” moment for me. It was cool that he got to be one of the episode’s emotional centers after being a bit player for so long.
Kate Vernon is so, SO fabulous. At least we can be reasonably sure nothing horrible will happen to her next week! I literally screamed “DAMN YOU, GWC!!!” when Anders went down. But you guys rock, so it’s all good.
Hey guys, thanks for the cast. I’m only part way though it, but it’s another quality GWC episode.
Anyway, here’s what I think’s going to happen next week. Adama and Roslin have a interesting problem. How to incorporate the rebel Cylons into the power structure. They’re some sort of pure democracy and they’re not going to like autocracy and they’ve got a lot of guns and scout ships and what not. They’re desperate, but pretty cynical about humans. They’re going to want a voice.
Enter a reconstituted Quorum. Lee will push the idea as will, believe it or not, Baltar. He’s feeling all responsible now. And they’ll have a powerful argument on their side in that the people are going to want a say and that the coup points to a sense of frustration on the people.
I think we’ll end up with Lee as VP and Tory or a Six as Cylon delegate. It’ll be interesting to see how they handle their need to show their loyalty to their agreement with all politics that’ll ensue.
I have to toss in my quarter bet and say that Ellen is not going to resurrect with the original 7 Cylons. I’m betting that the Final Five have their own special facilities jsut like the old hybrid’s facility in Razor, close to where the fleet currently is. She will have her own ship that will take to meet the fleet, and then she will find out that Caprica 6 is pregnant with Saul’s baby and…
Yeah, Kelly was the third in command all the up to the end of season 3 and is little arch during these episodes made perfect sense. As an original Galactica officer he was very loyal to Adama, but he also has the continued hatred of Cylons that is endemic (and I guess understandable) throughout the crew. He already showed willingness to even kill the public attorneys for an accused collaborator. I think because of this he was assumed to be a loyal member of the coup attempt, but he probably largely agreed to it to get out of his cell. Clearly his mind was turned after he overheard the Qof12 being assassinated, and then thinking about the good old days of the Galactica with Chief. I actually thought it was quite moving that the place he went to go after he bailed on the execution party was the memorial shrine hallway to lost loved ones, showing he was torn between his loyalty to those killed by the Cylons and his loyalty to Adama.
On a different point the leader who is most to blame for the coup is actually Zarek himself. Adama is a good leader, however he is not a politician. He leads by his will, and is not a diplomat that works to convince people to come to his side. Normally this works with his crew, but apparently the alliance with the Cylons was an issue that will alone was not going convince those against it. Instead it was the political leaders responsibility to make the cogent arguments as to why the alliance was in the best interest of the fleet. Unfortunately, we know that Laura was not on her A-game due to her illness and devastation after the discovery of Earth. Given that power vacuum who’s responsibility is to step up and make those arguments? It’s the vice president’s. Unfortunately, he’s shown himself to not be a reliable advocate for the administration, thus precluding Laura from stepping aside like she should. If he was honorable, actually believed in democracy, and disagreed so vehemently with the administration’s policies, then he should have resigned and advocated for change from the outside and run for the office of president in his own right. Although, admittedly that might be difficult considering its been publicly stated that Adama would never accept Zarek’s presidency (although, apparently with good reason in hindsight).
Anyway, I still find the disconnect between the character we saw on the screen and Richard Hatch’s description of Zarek really interesting, but I’ve typed enough for the moment…
Hi all,
I’m thirty minutes into the podcast, so apologies if this is mentioned later on.
Solai beat me to it, but Captain Kelley is indeed an original Galactica officer and was actually third in command, directly after Tigh. He became acting XO of the ship after Adama was shot by Boomer. It’s crucial to remember that he was so angry at Baltar’s abandonment of the people and supposed collaboration with Cylons that he blew up ships and killed people who stood to give him a fair trial, and was thrown in the brig for a year and a half. He’s the posterchild for Gaeta’s coup, so his breakdown and flip back to Adama, the man who threw him in jail, is even more powerful than on the surface.
Chuck was incorrect when he said Kelley ducked into Baltar’s lair to cry. He was in the memorial hallway with the photos and flames. It’s a great image - a crying soldier whose morals collapsed on him twice deciding between his jailor and former Admiral or the populist who executed the government in front of him.
And Lee pwned Starbuck. Heh.
Thanks for another great cast! After I finish each of these final episodes, I can’t imagine being more excited…and then I’m proven wrong with your casts. Your excitement and intelligence always impresses and challenges (especially Sean) me.
If anyone hasn’t done this already, go back and rewatch “Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down”. After the great interview with Kate Vernon, I was inspired to dust off Season 1. Although I’ll never be able to watch the dinner party scene again without being blown away that she was doing her first scene of the show, I was struck by a couple of interesting elements. First, and forgive if this has already been mentioned, but the picture of Ellen burned by Tigh’s cigar is burned in her right eye–the same eye Tigh will later lose. Second, and related to this first one, is a comment that Adama makes after the Tigh’s leave the dinner party; after Roslin observes that Tigh “loves her [Ellen] deeply”, Adama quickly corrects her and says “Blindly!” More eye and sight metaphors! Of course, it’s also Sam’s right eye that is scanned by the raider. One last nugget from “Tigh Me Up…” is that Head Six makes two comments that seem important in retrospect: when seeing Starbuck, she tells Baltar “there is something intriguing” about her and when seeing Ellen for the first time, she says both “there’s something here” and “you should be watching her.” Good stuff and alone worth the rewatch!
Keep up the great casting all!
P.S. for Sean–more great discussions around authority and leadership! Can you have leadership without authority? If anyone does, it would seem to be the Chief, no?
For the record, the hallway that Captain Kelly was crying in was the hallway of memories where all the pictures are.
i have no words left…
Talking about tonight’s episode Audra and Chuck were talking about the marines and if it was lawful. As a matter of the UCMJ no Mutiny can ever be lawful and the fact the people were going outside the chain of command made it mutiny. If the Vice President were to give a order it’s un-lawful unless he is given the power to give it. On 9/11 the Vice president was given the powers to protect our country. The NPO (National Program Office) which acts like a shadow government in the US since Regan was president and the cold war; it gives powers to protect the government and country from outside attacks. I know that since the orders for the marines were coming form Gaeta and not the co or xo they could not be legal. In the COC (chain of Command) only the XO and the Admiral can relieve a CO, and must have cause. Anyone that took up arms should be tried. As some of the people I know, two marines got court marshaled for not killing a sailor when they had shot to kill orders. The orders were to shot to kill any person that didn’t belong in a classified area that housed nuclear weapons. a sailor that was out of his mind wanted to die and jumped the fence in hopes that they’d kill him. The marines didn’t kill him and only took him in to custody. The marines were put on trial for not shooting to kill. Sadly they we found guilty but the judge gave them light punish for their actions.
Hi from Final Five Wannabee. I’m a long time listener, but have never posted before. I work from home, and often listen to the podcasts while working. You guys are like my virtual cubicle buddies. Anyway, was listening to podcast 150 and almost choked on my coffee when Sean made the "cylon zip lock bag reference’ Way too funny!
To drive the point home, the mini opens up with the Six blowing up the space station then cuts to the Battlestar, Starbuck running in the corridor. The camera follows her until she passes Adama, then this moment occurs:
There is Captain Kelly.
Yeah, the Galactica won’t last that much longer. They need to find a place to live that isn’t crappy.
Or in other words,
GO BACK TO KOBOL!.
Ahem. Apologies for the caps.
(And yeah, the only problem with that idea is the same as always; there’s hostiles out there still looking for ya. I wonder if Cavil’s been smart enough and just decided to rebuild pure-cylon civilization on Cobol?)
Edit: Getting later into the podcast (I fell asleep too early last night to listen to all of it), hearing Kate Vernon talk about how BSG allows for moments where characters live through what’s happened, those human moments without chatter, it made me think of the only other show in recent memory that’s done the same thing. That was the short-lived Smith, which much like BSG had some amazingly high-calibre talent (like Ray Liotta and Simon Baker). I remember watching it and, from the very first episode, both loving it and knowing it would be cancelled. I couldn’t quite put my finger on why I thought that, though, until my sister pointed it out: Smith, as a show, let moments play out and let things linger.
BSG is actually quite lucky, having built up a following through the miniseries (and through its high-profile status as the-new-battlestar) and being on Sci-Fi; Smith, which was cinematically quite similar, was thrown in then yanked out of CBS’ prime-time. It makes me think further of Threshold, which admittedly wasn’t similar to BSG or Smith in the aforementioned ways but, still, points out another way in which BSG could easily not have made it. Threshold was Brannon Braga’s show, after all, so while RDM was making his post-Trek sci-fi show Brannon Braga was making his own, and similar to Smith he got screwed over by CBS.
I guess my point is just, wow, we managed to get four seasons and three movies out of RDM’s BSG. Compared to shows that are even only different in one major aspect of their situation, that’s incredible!