I am offended by the gross generalization of “aliens.” Marvel will be hearing from my lawyer.
I should probably let him speak for himself, but I assumed that Sean’s objection to this kind of simple classification is that (like everything in comics, it seems) there are so many exceptions that there’s almost not a rule. The first example that comes to mind is Jubilee, whom I understand received significant supplementation of her mutant powers from technology, as have others. I understand that a number of mutants found access to power via technology or alterations as well after finding themselves de-powered by Scarlet Witch – though I can’t speak to it directly because I haven’t reached that point in the Marvel timeline yet. (I’m still lurking around where the Scarlet Witch is just a poor sap working for Magneto with her brother because they feel indebted.)
This, however, makes a lot of sense to me, and the more Marvel I read, the more I see your point. Iron Man, for example, seems to get away with most anything, whereas mutants always manage to find themselves hunted, labeled, “contained,” or otherwise screwed.
Edit:
This kind of discussion, BTW, is what motivates me (and the rest of the crew, I’d say) to put time into GWC. A few years ago I was a sorta-sci-fi-little-bitta-fantasy geek who enjoyed BSG enough to podcast about it. Ever since we’ve expanded into other areas, I feel like my sci-fi/fantasy/comic cultural education has advanced light-years – all at the hands of my capable instructors: you.
Comics serve as a perfect example of this. Those of you who grew up in the comic shop probably don’t realize that it’s an intimidating place to the uninitiated. People aren’t all that friendly there (at first), and the stories and art that line the walls require more study to understand than Shakespeare. So to “get into comics,” one needs a guide – a friend to explain things (as best they can as no one can completely understand these stories any more than one can “complete the task of enjoyment” re: any art), answer questions, and most importantly of all, participate in regular discussions/arguments/bulls— sessions about it.
GWC has become a source for this for all of us, and I believe it’s going to become even more of one post-BSG. We’re working dilligently on some mods to the blog/forum system to make it easier to access the full catalog of information/fellowship already available here on various subjects and to keep that information organized as we continue to add to it for years to come. I’m sure we’ll have it all ready by March 20, if not sooner.
</soapbox> 
Like the couch-jumper said in Mission Impossible: “Relax, it’s way worse than that.”
I have read the first chapter and I am enjoying it. I just have to make sure to finish it before going back to work. I just can not believe how nice it is to just sit down and read a book. The simple pleasures even if the book is dark.
(The first frame - dead dog - you get my problem)
yah that’s it exactly - spider man, iron man, they are mainly seen as super heroes whereas the mutants are seen as freaks to be hunted down. Often kids would get turned out of their homes by their parents and end up at Xavier’s school as a refuge.
Not sure if you got there yet, but there’s a huge community of mutants called the Morlocks who live beneath the subways of Manhattan as they’ve been shunned by mainstream society and many of their powers are offbeat and bizarre.
I’m soooo going back and re-reading over the holidays!
Leah, I personally think Watchmen is a beautiful, perfectly crafted book. True, it is dark but in the end as a piece of art and literature it is truly brilliant.
…and if you like this I have a Sandman that I would like to introduce to you, hands down my favorite graphic novel of all time.
I am strangely distracted by the pictures. I am into all of the details. I should get off the computer and back to reading. ( we need one with a blood spot)
First of all, I’d like to preface this by saying I have not read any X-Men. I have thoroughly enjoyed the moves. I’d like to also echo that the third one they essentially took on too much story to cover for it to be completely comprehensible.
That said, I’d like to address the issue of Xavier suppressing Jean’s abilities. My first though, the very first one, was how stupid are you? The reason I wanted you to understand that I’ve never read the comics before is because this is a thought that comes form someone who is completely new to the world. Chuck addressed it a little in the cast, but I think it’s important to note that you don’t need to be familiar with the world to understand the ramifications of suppressing things. It doesn’t matter what your real intentions are. When you sppress something powerful, it finds a way around. WHen that way is found it is completely uncontrollable because the person in charge of it has never learned how to handle it properly. Also, it is even more powerful than if it had it’s natural outlet. The best example of this isn’t even with human behavior, as Chuck referenced with teenagers. Volcano’s are the best example. There are powerful forces at work underneath the crust of the Earth, it needs outlets or it just explodes. By suppressing Jean’s abilities, he not only robbed her of crucial learning but created a volcano of sorts. You can’t suppress things that powerful, they will get out & not in constructive ways. His intentions aside, it was a really REALLY dumb thing to do.
I also wanted to add to this yet another nod to the community as a whole. It is so very nice to be introduced to things like comics without the snarky trolling that comes with this sort of thing in other areas of the internet. I feel like I can ask any question, no matter how dumb & I will get an honest answer. As well as a little ribbing without the mean behind it that you can run into. I think this is especially important for women who are interested in this sort of thing. As Chuck said, the comic store is not a friendly place to the uninitiated. For a woman it can be downright scary.
Chuck…You sold me on Prof X is an Ass.
And Solai she never would have gone batshit crazy like she did had X not done what he did.
How do you know if she would have just got angry at a boyfriend or someone down the block and bam half the world is gone. She could have done it at age 10. Children have tantrums but normally no one dies. I think the suggestion that all would be well if a young girl with her power would have just been left to herself is a big assumption.
Just left to herself would have also been a disaster, Leah. She needed guidance & training on being able to control it.
she could have taken down half the world because she mistakenly ate some habaneros, who knows…
Xavier is not the perfect human being, but judging by the movies alone (which i just watched after listenning to the podcast) i still think it’s hard to come to the conclusion that if he didn’t do what he did, the Phoenix could be avoided.
Of course since he chose to block her powers, we’d never find out what would happen if he didn’t. But say if he didn’t block it and the Phoenix went out of control, then people would ask Xavier why he didn’t try to prevent it, since he knew it could happen. And by then they wouldn’t be able to find out what would happen if he did.
Either way, the moment Xavier met Gene, he was screwed. He either sits back and hopes it resolve itself and watch it blow up, or he can do all he could do then watch it blow up.
Gene as a little girl having that much power is like letting Kim Jang-il(who could pass off as an teen-age girl) have nuclear weapons. You can either hope if you give him a lot of space and understanding he’d come to his senses, or try to contain him. But I suppose the best solution is to do the right balance of both.
I’m not sure if this has been mentioned, but isn’t it interesting that the one mutant that Xavier doesn’t train to harness her powers has abilities similar to his?
See, I am not sold on that idea yet. Here is why…I think about what Xavier said in X2 about Wolverine discovering his past to Magneto. Something like,
“Charles, you knew exactly what was there, what he needed to know”
“Yes, but the mind needs to discover things on its own”
I believe that Xavier did not put Jean’s mind in a cage, but in a maze and that when she was at a point which she could take a step she was able to surmount one of the blocks. I have no evidence to support this besides the fact that he is a man who has dedicated himself to helping other mutants. I still maintain he did what he did to give her a chance at living her life. Where the path seems to diverge is my belief that ultimately Xavier intended her to achieve her “Dark Phoenix” state once she was ready and those that believe that Xavier wanted to keep her permanently in this lesser Jean Grey state.
Despite the lack of any supporting evidence, I too agree with this supposition. Xavier was holding her back, but I believe it was for her and everyone else’s benefit. Giving the nature of mutants there was eventually going to be someone that evolved (how it pains me to use that term here) powers that were truly good for no one. That person was Jean Grey…
On the topic of Lisa Kudrow:
I was never a huge fan of friends, but I watched it now and then. However, my wife and I were probably the one fans of her HBO show The Comeback. I thought it was quite good. It’s a shame it lasted only one season…
I agree with you as you know. I still say Xavier was not power crazy and controlling just because Jean had the same power. I think he did what he thought was best for Jean and the world. Jean also had different powers even as Jean from Xavier.
2nd chapter read of Watchman.
First of all, I’d like to say that podcast #133, the year-end GWC bonuses (heheh) & #134, that was like a Christmas present for me. Especially since I was clearing my block leave for the past week. So no, I don’t think anyone’s complainin’ either.
sorry, I’m all stream-of-consciousness right now, trying to remember what went on in #134…
Hey, we need to juxtapose (is that the right use of the word, Audra?) the whole Dr-Xavier-is-a-dick commentary against the scene in Justice League where Superman-the-white-from-a-parallel-erff lobotomized this bad guy (I think he was called Apocalypse or something like that).
Also, we need a sub-arc to discuss Stan Lee’s other pet project, the Amazing Spiderman. The guy’s been offered a leadership position in both the X-Men & Justice League at different times, but in the end, he would rather go solo. Spiderman has had an on-off relationship with the X-Men. But I gather it’s mostly because he’s based on New York (yeah!). I just love Spiderman’s wisecracks and New York attitude. But best of all, the bad guys get to be the butt of jokes and play the staight guy against Spiderman, before getting whack! thunk! bam! pow! by him.
Last of all, I agree with Audra and I think it was totally awesome and Barb of sorry-Barb fame called in with her very fine elocution… hehehhe… go PMS girl! 
PS [spoiler] Mystique is Nightcrawler’s mom [/spoiler] Does anyone know of any comic book issue where they explained that arc?
Hear, hear!
It’s been awhile since I’ve posted, but I thought, y’know, considering my screenname, I should chime in…
I first got introduced to X-Men through the Animated Series on Fox. It was playing in the mall, and while my parents raced around frantically looking for me, I was slack-jawed, eyes-glazed, staring at the tv. After that, I dove in headfirst. I love the X-Men in all their incarnations. I think it taps into something so universal-feeling like an outsider.
One of the first stories I got my hands on was the Dark Phoenix Saga. I loved it. Jean Grey as the Phoenix was terrible and beautiful. And as a young, adolescent girl, the idea of a woman with so much raw power and passion that everyone was afraid of was pretty potent.
I believe the original planned ending was Jean was going to get lobotomized. Thankfully, they switched it. With everyone trying to control her, Xavier, Mastermind, etc., she chose to do (and end) things on her own terms. What does the Watcher say at the end? She could have lived like a god, but she chose to die a human.
The problem with Jean as a character is she is too powerful. In the comics, they are always either ramping her up and then everyone freaks out that shes going to eat the sun and kill them all, or she’s ramped down (the worst example being the Animated Series cartoon when she’s pretty much useless and faints all the time.) I did like her story in Grant Morrison’s New X-Men though.
I was so excited at the end of X2 with the hint of Phoenix at the end, but was so terribly disappointed by X3. I can see how they made some of the choices they did to suit the movie, but it just left a bad taste in my mouth.
I have really loved listening to the entire X-Men arc. I’ve even been reading some of my old comics. Thanks so much!
I agree wholeheartedly with Audra in reference to Angel’s attractiveness. In fact, I had a huge crush on the actor when I was about ten and he was on a semi-obscure, non-sci-fi but fun Disney TV series called “Flash Forward.” And on a Six-Degrees-of-Sci-Fi related note, Jewel Staite (Firefly’s Kaylee) co-starred with him on “Flash Forward.”
Also, the bleeping of Sean’s impression of his mom on that roller coaster was hilarious; it was like a test of the Emergency Broadcast System!