GWC Podcast #115

Podcasts Galactic Watercooler
#81

What I think makes the Matrix movies particularly interesting is that they are something far less common than the Narnia concept, or even its opposite (that there is nothing but our one reality- nothing beyond it or more powerful than the experience we have day to day). It’s true that the allegorical function of the Matrix shifts from the first movie through to the third, but I think that it’s clear that the shift was purposefully planned to move from Neo’s total lack of understanding, to a period in which he thinks he understands the Matrix and knows how to subvert it (end of the first movie), to a period in which he realizes that his understanding was incomplete, a second learning phase, and finally an actual grasp of the whole picture.

What is interesting is that the message seems to be that the worlds we create and that are created for us can be both prisons and opportunities- and that neither one is fully complete without the other. It’s almost a rejection of the idea of heaven/earth/hell and a substition of a philosophy of multiple, interdependent realities- and there’s something interesting in that.

#82

…just because the Architect is a horny voyueristic old perv dude who thinks that two girls for every boy is the norm doesn’t mean it doesn’t line up with how machines want to rebuild the human race…

…that’s just icing!! :D:cool:

#83

Well, it is established in the first movie that some of us would, given full knowledge of the situation, prefer to live in the nice sunshiny place.

#84

As the lone woman on the 'crew, it’s my responsibility to fulfill gender stereotypes. :wink: (Actually, it was just a bit of fun to get Sean riled.)

Hmm, interesting. Now I’m getting self-conscious. It’s possible the Texas sound has infiltrated my Matrix brain and creeps out now and then…

Oh, yes. Unless you want iced tea, which in the South is pretty much what everyone drinks, all the time. It’s unsweetened in Texas and “sweet tea” in the Deep South. Where I grew up (New York State) it was soft drinks only - specifically Mountain Dew and Pepsi. The first real iced tea I had was when I moved to TX. But if you’re talking hot tea… I think Americans see that as a British anomaly, for the most part.

grabbing head with both hands Noooo! Now I have two competing accents.

Hats off to David! Thanks fer playin’ along!

#85

See? That’s what I’m talking about.

#86

I am laughing so hard my sinuses hurt.

#87

Having spent most of my life living in either Texas or Missouri I can second the iced tea comment Audra. You don’t knock a Southerner’s ice tea. For some strange reason there used to be a Pepsi bottling plant in my hometown so I’m a big fan of Mountain Dew and Pepsi, although the Texan side of me loves a good Dr. Pepper every now and then. If I’m not drinking iced tea, it’s Mountain Dew all the way.

#88

Something Audra was talking about in the cast really got me thinking - the whole, people change drastically/become their opposites from the first to the third movie - Neo a loser becomes a god, the Oracle a god becomes more normal, etc. I think this is what really drives my fascination with the Matrix - it presents us with “typical” mythology, stereotypes, and whatnot of the hero, the villian, etc, and then delves deeper. Through a thorough exploration and testing of what one thinks one is, a deeper - and broader - truth is discovered. Commonalities with the machines, a lack of black and white solutions, etc. Actually, a theme that’s shared with our beloved BSG to some extent [though, in the BSG universe, not one person arrives on earth still carrying the mantle of good like Neo does when he arrives in the machine city].

In comparison, while both Star Wars and Star Trek sometimes allude to this deeper play and reality, light and dark extremes still hold and the Borg is still the evil Borg. I know that there are countless examples where, in these universes, the premise is tested but in the end still is the foundation of their themes. Not so in the Matrix and certainly not in BSG.

And, in response to Sean’s comment about Audra’s theory not holding for the Smiths, I actually thought it was interesting that both when he took over the Oracle and right before his demise, he seemed more scared than ever. Just because there was more of him hadn’t made him any more secure in his power.

#89

As stated by Mr. Cage, some people would rather be in the Matrix. Of course none of those people were in Zion, and when you see the population of the last human city you’ll notice when you watch the film a diverse swath of people in Zion of various ethnic backgrounds.

The reason for this, if of course, if you are disenfranchised member of a minority in a western country, or if you live in a country that is “third world” yet has cities (and what a loathsome term that is) imagine if someone like Morpheus offered you the red pill. Perhaps the pitch is different, ala “Human misery is a construct of an oppresive regime, whom you can depose if you join us.” (The question of “is it still terrorism if it’s against machines” is for another post).

Imagine if you are a heroin addict, or a street hustler, or a car-thief and someone offers you a chance to live a world where not only your criminal record is of no consequence, but also where you are relevant as a member of the human resistance. It looks better and better, doesn’t it?

Imagine if you lived in China in 1999, or the Balkans? Places where either terror or fear ran just shy of rampant.

Imagine if someone told you that all that human misery was fake, as a means of ensuring people believe in their reality. You’re entire life and the suffering therein has been structured to ensure that a majority of people continue about their lives without question.

Even more than that, members of Zion logged into the Matrix would be viewed as terrorists. Well it’s the governments job, in a world that’s exactly like ours, to stop terrorism, and in this way-without even knowing- government enforces the will of the Matrix by preventing Zion-based hackers from recruiting more into their number.

Imagine if all the suffering in the world were to equal a certain amount of output of energy. You don’t have to see the people suffer, you don’t have to endure the sight of it. Let’s say that directly torturing one person would power the home of one family. Let’s say the output improved and that torture could power ten homes. Well, a thousand homes would mean torturing 100 people, wouldn’t it? Would you turn a blind eye? Hell, would you even ask where that power comes from? If human suffering defines reality, and reality is the means by which the Matrix gets it power (literally and figuratively) then how much suffering would people accept in order to live.

However, it’s not as though there’s no give and take here. In exchange for power, the Matrix is willing to give people reality in which they have the potential to be content. Not very many are, but the potential is there, and more often than not, the potential too succeed, even in a fake reality, might be enough to keep anyone going.

#90

Finally got a chance to listen to the Revolutions cast. Sean’s response to the uneven gender ratio was exactly what I would have said, it just makes logical sense. I started laughing as it was the woman who though of other women as sex objects (only wanted for threesomes) rather then the men (or if they did they didn’t express it).
Also agree on the fact that different people at different positions would have caused a different outcome. Everyone was important, focusing more on a team effort so to speak rather then just the work of the one. And the truce ending was one I enjoyed, good to see something different to human’s coming out completely on top.

Thanks again for the great podcast. Have finally tracked down a copy of the Animatrix so am off to watch that before listening to #116.

#91

Arguably, that’s happening in the “real world”. In fact, the ratio of human suffering to energy output is probably a lot higher than that already. Nonetheless, no one seems all too bothered by it. Blind eyes, all around. :frowning:

#92

In fact, I think that’s one of the many metaphors of the Matrix. The entire story is really social injustice. When you view it through the lens of the Second Renaissance, the question becomes at what point is a group of people redeemed after basically committing war crimes? When we find out in Reloaded that it’s been several generations, well, I think humanity has been punished enough.

As for suffering producing energy, I won’t say that people aren’t bothered by it; but there are subtle ways of using less and less energy that don’t involve putting beeswax in your hair or bombing an oil rig or something. 1 million people doing 1 million little things will make a big difference. Naturally, people will scowl “I’m not giving up my SUV,” and that kind of abject selfishness is a sad consequence of American culture, however, it can be countered over time.

#93

On the SUV thing, I do believe there are people who need the SUV. People who actually like to move stuff or people without having a truck or a van. People who actually takes their bikes/kayaks out every weekend.

And there are ways to make the SUV more energy efficient and reduce pollution, like hybrid SUV. So just because it isn’t a Honda Insight, which saves the most, doesn’t mean it doesn’t deserve to be around.

That being said, when I was junior in college, my friends worked their butts off in part time jobs to pay off their Lexus SUVs. Now, while it’s cool having a SUV, I don’t think they really needed it. They don’t make that kind of travel, carry that much cargo or move that many people. Not to mention college kids don’t really need to drive a Lexus.

So I do see what you are saying.

#94

I recall one occasion when I actually needed an SUV, and that was during relief efforts in Louisiana in 2005. To bring it full circle, the decisions that led me there could also be considered a consequence of American culture as well.