GWC Podcast #107

I completely agree with your premise, though I haven’t yet listened to #107. Keep in mind, though, how easy it is to draw clear lines for high moral standards when we’re talking about populations or groups rather than individuals- or when we’re talking about an individual who isn’t near and dear to our hearts in the way that Annakin is.

While I don’t know how Chuck feels about little Ani, Padme loves him, and she has to find ways to rationalize his actions- especially at the beginning, when his stealthy shuffles toward the Dark Side aren’t as clear as they become in hindsight. It seems to her like one monstrous act, at odds with the character of the man she loves, so she looks for ways to fit it in without concluding that there’s something rotting away in his soul.

Especially considering that we all already know who/what Annakin becomes, I think we’re meant to feel upset and disquieted by Padme’s reaction, but if this had been a better production, we would have felt upset and disquieted because we would have understood exactly why she did as she chose to do- and perhaps thought that our own choices would have been the same.

Harvey Dent (aka Two Face) from Batman is one of the Sandpeople? The stuff one learns via GWC never ends.

Nicely put, Starbuccaneer. One of the truly frustrating things about the prequels is how much the audience has to do Lucas’ writing and the actors’ acting jobs for them. I think, in the hand of a better director and writer and actors who were perhaps more assertive in playing the characters the way they wanted to, we would have had exactly the reaction you describe to Padme’s reaction. As Solai says in his call, there is this infuriating mismash of good and bad in the prequels – so much potential! Sigh. aye this all just makes me a “hater.” But I still plan on taking my kid to see the animated “Clone Wars” in the theater this summer. Hope springs eternal! :slight_smile:

FWIW, Audra convinced me with her arguments in the podcast. I guess my point was a bit technical – that slaughtering the supporting women and children in a village that trades in slaves is slightly less bad (but still bad) than slaughtering Jedi younglings. And truthfully there comes a line where there is no gray, just black and white. This is really one of those times.

But the worst part of it is that my extended discussion of Sand People kept us from getting to discuss Yoda’s “first” saber battle. Doh! I’ll make up for it next time. :slight_smile:

Hey guys. Thanks for the great podcast once again. To get a great bead on the somewhat hazy details in Ep 2 and 3 about how exactly Count Dooku came to be one of the fallen Jedi and a brand spanking new Sith apprentice, and how a secret clone army was ordered out of the “Matchstick-Heads Catalog for Secret Clone Armies” on the installment plan, check out the novelization for Episode III.

In a nutshell, Master Sifo Dyas was actually a real Jedi Master who foresaw dark times coming, and in the sacred Jedi tradition of being a complete moron didn’t warn anyone or let them in on his plan for fighting the dark forces rising. Under a secret mission that (I think) Chancellor Valorum sent him on, he went to the cloners and commissioned the clone army for the republic.

Of course, at the same time, Palpatine (Sidious) has intercepted this mission, so he knows who, what, when and where, and decides to usurp the army as his own, and segue this good fortune into his overall plan for domination.

This all was happening about the time of Phantom Menace. The story with Dooku is that he was quite irritated with the stagnation of the Jedi and their meditative ways. At this point he wasn’t really evil, but he was a bit of a snob (having come from royalty), and wanted real reform of the Jedi order to become a more active and ruling class in the Republic, and not the lackeys of the Senate and Chancellor. He was also kind of a racist, and wasn’t too fond of all the different “inferior” species. His disillusionment with the Jedi came when his beloved apprentice Qui-Gon was murdered on Naboo, afterwhich he lost his faith in the Jedi Council and their impotence.

This was fortunate for Sidious, who needed a new apprentice (he would be keeping a close eye on Anakin, but his upbringing in the Order was part of the plan for his fall), and seduced Dooku with his plans for revolutionary change in the Galaxy. His first task in becoming a Sith Lord was to murder his friend, Sifo Dyas, after getting in his good graces and learning as much as he could about the clone army, then take his place, meeting with the cloners with the Sith agenda of domination at hand.

Dooku, of course, was under the impression (according to the book) that Sidious would allow him control of the Jedi Order (once a sufficient purge of the old guard and alien Jedi had been made) and he would be allowed to reshape it in a new image, to be true guardians of his Order. This is why he is trying to recruit Obi-Wan, who he really felt was like a grandson to him, and even right before the final fight in Episode III tried to convince Palpatine to spare or to try to convert to their side. Dooku unfortunately didn’t realize Palpatine’s true plan and deception until it was a little too late.

I’m sure there are a million little details I’m forgetting, but that’s the gist. Again, great podcast.

“in the sacred Jedi tradition of being a complete moron”

LOL! I love it. I do think it is a shame that Lucas didn’t choose to show us a time when the Jedi truly were the knights we all want them to be, the true champions of truth, justice, freedom, all that good stuff. It’s a strange storytelling choice at the very least. Why not show us the Golden Age so that we can really tell how bad things are when Palpatine brings about the Empire?

One of my few ventures into the EU was a “Tales of the Jedi” audiobook starring a character called Nomi Sunrider. I don’t remember much about it, but I do recall that there the Jedi really were the true heroes we’d like them to be. Camelot before the fall, as it were.

Hope we weren’t ganging up on you too much, Chuck! :slight_smile:

Cool, thank you both for the added information…

I’m about half way through podcast #107 and was intrigued by Sean’s comment that R2D2 has seen EVERYTHING and KNOWS EVERYTHING, but he ain’t talkin’

I wonder if anyone’s thot about doing the following: Make an audio “commentary” track of the Star Wars movies in which R2D2 is saying out loud everything he knows and is thinking. Wouldn’t that be the coolest?

Even better, just subtitle the beeps. “She’s your sister! Eeeewww!”

Yeah, I saw exactly that in the CAPTION this thread. Hilarious…!

My mind started singing that one right away! Now it’ll be in my head all day!:eek:

I just want to say: Solai’s call at about 54 min in to podcast 107: Best call ever!!
I totally agree with him on every point.
Now, just to be clear, I don’t consider myself an ep 1-3 hater. And I am happy we are doing this arc in a 1,2,3,4,5 and 6 order. And, do I feel that the universe is better and richer with those movies existing (as opposed to not existing)? Yes, of course. But those flaws that Solai pointed out really tainted what could have been an amazing film(s) and ones that kept true to the tone and “reality” of SW 4,5 and 6.

All that said, there is another part of my brain that actually admires George Lucas for getting away with making the movie(s) that he really wanted to make. If it weren’t for his God-like status (mostly deserved) in the film industry, he never would have gotten away with making a movie like Phatom Menance—not with all that was riding on it. So I admire how he said (in effect) “screw you hollywood, this movie is going to be my movie the way I want it to be.”

LMAO

Audra, your Anakin as a Volcano is the best PT synopsis ever! Annakin put on your pampers is another comment that made me do a spit take.

DUDE has a red lighter Saber, Come on!!

I agree with your Yen and Yan philosophy of the force Sean.

Sifo-Dyas :stuck_out_tongue:

And Dooku and Palpatine hook up shortly after TPM. :slight_smile:

The button makes me think of the spaceballs self-destruct button. :stuck_out_tongue:

You have to take the good with the bad.

So say we all.

Adi Gallia member of the Jedi Council. :stuck_out_tongue:

LMAO
Lightsaber Day at Jurassic Park.

This should help Audra with the conflicting ideas about the force.

Basically there are two different philosophies on the force. The Living Force that deals with being in the moment and The Unifying Force that deals with prophecy etc.

The Clone discussion is great. To delve deeper into the lives of the Clone Army you should check out the Republic Commando series of novels.

Damn. Thought I was being super original.

YEE-HAW!!!

I’ll have you know that call I called in this week was the best call I’ll ever call :smiley:

I’ll comment on the podcast after I listen to it…

in the meantime a lil BSG stuff

just a lil somethin’ somethin’ or two I thought I’d share

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2008/06/battlestar-ga-2.html

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/07/tricia-helfer-o.html

Thanks David, I haven’t read that first link yet. The Hera bit is interesting. Is Park talking about the same actor we saw in the first ten episodes or an older child?

Anyways, I came across this while browsing YouTube.

//youtu.be/Sv5iEK-IEzw

I know there are other Eddie Izzard fans on here. :cool:

TighFighter, meet DeathByTray. DeathByTray, meet TighFighter.

Ooops. I thot that’s where you got it from. I meant no dig against your originality.