I would like to thank Solai for the wonderful dog tag. Can you tell that this is my first day off of work? I am trying everything I was not sure how to do. Now I just need to learn how to make a picture small so that it does not to take the entire page.
I must of fixed the problem because the size of the picture changed. How strange.
Being Canadian, I didn’t pick up on the Mammy thing, that’s an American cultural reference and it isn’t really ingrained up here. I do, however, think black women get pigeon-holed along with Native Americans. Hollywood culture is racist as they consider them more “primitive” and thus more spiritual/connected to mother earth. As such they often have similar roles in Hollywood. I’m sure none of this is conscious, it’s been going on since the beginning of Hollywood. I just wish Hollywood would open it’s eyes and work to change the stereotype.
As for the lack of black actors on BSG, my assumption is that is not that they don’t know what to do with black actors, it’s that it’s filmed in Vancouver. Canada, in general, has a very small black population. This isn’t to say it’s very white, not in the least. Major cities (like Vancouver) are some of the most diverse cities in the world. We just didn’t have slavery like the US* and thus don’t have the black population they do.**
*Okay, yes, for a few years we did have slavery. It didn’t last long, wasn’t popular, and was nowhere near the scale as the US (no plantations here). Most of the former slaves that escaped the US using the Underground Railway were so well integrated into Canadian society their descendants are white.
**I’m sure none of this is news for Americans, just info for people elsewhere.
This is not to start a fight but just an educational moment for me. How well does the different cultures integrate in Canada? Your country has a different mix than down here, but do they get along any better? Where I live the different cultures do pretty well together, but that is not true everywhere. I have always found that the newest minority to move into an area is the one that everyone has the most problems with.
I think it would be funny if after all of the hard thinking on the subject the problem is a shortage of Black actors where BG is shooting. :rolleyes:
Thank you for the Canadian viewpoint.
Topics such as the “Mammy role for Elosha” tend to bug me. An argument could be made for just about every race:
Asian person: the Sensei role
Native American: the Noble Savage role
Canadian: the Designated Driver of North America role (joke option)
Anyway, you get my point. If a white person had been in the role I’m sure you could say “BSG is racist! Look at the white religious leader!”
Before we talk about the supposed racial stereotypes for a role, shouldn’t we know what was advertised in the casting call? Maybe that actress got the role because she was best for the part, and it had nothing at all to do with race?
True. And the flip side is that just about every role for a black could be considered racist. Old and Wise? “Mammy” Young and Hot? “Oversexed” Kick-Ass? “Violent” etc.
But, there are conventions (good and bad) that American writers inherit, and in every case it’s a good idea to make sure you aren’t just following the conventions. It’s just better writing, for one. This is much harder for minor characters, of course, since you don’t have time to flesh them out.
I think costuming dropped the ball here, because they gave Elosha a rather typical back-to-Africa style of dress, but didn’t give it to the new white priestess. Now sure, they could just be from different traditions, but it shouldn’t map so closely to what we would expect here and now.
I hope the lack of black actors is just a reflection of the population (and a struggle to have a balance of Canadian actors for tax-break purposes). I really don’t want them to be racist.
As for integration, Canada has a policy (yes, this is actual federal policy) of multiculturalism. So Canada’s goals are not the same as the US’s. We want people to keep their culture, learn about other cultures, while adopting core Canadian values. These core values are in our Charter of Rights and Freedoms and can be summed up in the following way “you can’t discriminate against people because of their gender, race, sexuality, or religion”. This Charter is why we have gay marriage, gays (openly) in the military, women fighter pilots/submariners, Mounties wearing turbans etc. The other big difference is segregation. Of course, the southern US had segregation laws, but even in the northern parts of the US there was (and still is) a more subtle segregation where people lived in areas that had people like them. So they grew up not knowing very much about other cultures. This was (is) less prevalent in Canada (I have no idea why), so in that sense integration happens more naturally and with it tolerance. I have never lived in the US, but this is generally what Americans living in Canada say.
I would say new immigrants here probably suffer the same issues as in US (but I can’t really compare). We do have less long-term issues (we don’t have problems with race riots, for example) since the different communities are better integrated together.
Please note, I’m not saying one system is better than another or anything. I’m just trying to discuss the differences. Each country has it’s own problems, so please don’t be offended! I think there is one truth for both countries: the smaller the city, the more problems with discrimination.
I certainly hope that was the case. I’m not sure that we are specifically talking about BSG. We don’t know the exact motivation. For all we know, the actress wanted to dress that way and she won the role far and square. Or she knew someone doing the casting (LOL). I think we’re just saying it plays into stereotypes Hollywood/sci fi suffer from and BSG is so great breaking down the gender barriers, we like to see them do more with the race issues.
Good points. The race of the characters matter (and I think Audra mentioned this in the podcast itself) because BSG is not a world-unto-itself as much as we sometimes discuss it as such. It is cultural production tied to a specific culture at a specific moment; even if the intention of Mammy or the Magical Black Woman isn’t there on the writer’s part when writing Elosha, another black woman on television taking on the role of spiritual guide and, as Pike aptly notes above, dressed in a way that is culturally resonant for American viewers (though I don’t know how it would be viewed outside the US) just perpetuates limitations on the roles that black women can play on television (or in other acting venues).
This in no way negates other stereotypes about other racial groups, or even begins to get into the gendering of these roles. But in my mind, to reject these resonances as out of hand is to reject the common cultural baggage that the show carries along with the rest of television, film, etc. As much as BSG breaks many of these stereotypes (particularly with binary man-woman stuff, I hesitate to use “gender” because in terms of sexualities it hasn’t been particularly well fleshed out (ja, ja.)), they as producers and we as viewers cannot ignore the general milieu.
Part of the problem, of course, comes from the show’s intentional use of clothing and culture similar to Earth’s. If their religious leaders wore long purple polyester robes and silver lamé turbans, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Likewise, if the people were green or orange, issues of race wouldn’t resonate like they have. They made a conscious choice to make the show relatable to the “real world”, with every down-side that comes along with that decision.
I used to date someone who loved TV movies about women getting out of abusive relationships, and the thing that always turned the main character’s life around was meeting a black woman in her 40s who was a lawyer or social worker.
These movies always ended with the main character, the black woman, and a teenage girl who’s life had been even more messed up, arm in arm to happy music.
Sort of had to do that considering that they are headed to our “Earth” and “we” are related to “them”. In fact, how does it feel to be a member of the 13th Tribe?
It strikes me that it’s also a variant on the maiden/mother/crone trinity.
Lot’s of good posts here. I do think it is quite possible that color may have played a role in the casting of Elosha. As previously discussed, the common themes of the Mystical Black Woman and even the stereotype of the Black woman social worker (that RMHPH mentioned) is that the aid/advice is coming from source outside of the typical social sphere of the main character. Often in (American) productions this can be symbolically indicated by portraying the characters as coming from different ethnic backgrounds. As we know little about the different ‘ethnicities’ of the BSG universe the casting directors may have consciously or subconsciously fell back on the old standby as presenting Elosha as a different American ethnicity than Laura, because in the story it was clearly novel for Laura to seek counseling from a religious leader. I don’t particularly find anything wrong with this because Elosha was depicted as a strong, intelligent and honorable character. The ironic thing is that the dual characterizations (with in the same story arc) that I was slight less comfortable with was that of Sarah, the very religious Geminese representative to the Quorum of 12, and the security guard overseeing Laura’s captivity, who was also Gemenese and the first person to seek spiritual comfort from Laura. Both of these characters were certainly less fleshed out than Elosha and served either as the stand in for the irrational religious elements of the fleet that Laura has to deal with or to demonstrate the power that seeing her as the dying leader could have on religious Colonials. In essence the only purpose of these characters were to ‘be religous’. The funny thing is I would suspect that color didn’t have a role in the casting of these characters, and it just unfortunate that it happened to match with a previously established stereotype of Black people being depicted as more religious/spiritual in American film. There’s no obvious solution here, because both actors did fine jobs with the characters they were given and it would be silly to deny them speaking parts because of the color of their skin. Fortunately it was subsequently established that there is no association with strong religiosity and skin color in the BSG universe.
How much do we discount Dualla? While she’s hot and all…is she really all that religious? What stereotype does she fit?
She clearly fills the two-timing bitch role. At least that’s not a racially charged one.
Yikes! Someone else been taking the cranky pills?
I first want to say darn (Barb approved) I could not see the GLAST Delta II rocket go up because of clouds. I only could watch it on TV. Cool thing they said as it went up “A Gamma Ray telescope searching for unseen physics in the stars of the galaxies.” 
Anyway I think everyone should take a positive moment and think how BG has gone beyond stereotypes. I remember the big OH NO for changing a strong male role into a female one. Since I am not of African heritage I do not know if the character would be considered an insult or not. I really did not see a Black woman. I saw a actor who did a great job in the role. Has anyone a comment on the other minorities that are on the show as main characters?
Just dropping in a complete tangent before I settle in to read the thread–
When the first few seconds of the podcast played, and it began with a commercial, my eyebrows raised Vulcan-style. But I gotta say, by the time it was done, I think it was quite tasteful. No campy music, no ridiculous promises, just a casual discussion of a decent product. Very classy, and eminently GWC. And it’s nice to know the Big3 are getting a little bit of money help to put on this show.
Okay, I’m done.
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You made a very tasteful comment. It is much better than all that stuff they put on the bottom of the TV when you are trying to watch a program.
I for my part, was kidding on that last comment… but I do wonder if we’re trying too hard too make a mountain out of a molehill on the whole racial stereotypes thing, although I do also have that whole worry over whether my white male liberalness does make my opinion just aboot moot.