GWC Podcast #103

[Audra]

Giving credit where credit is due, The Lonely Toaster came up with that one. My credit is scouring all the entries and doing some quick wiki searches.

Well, thank you both!

Audra…his nose is stuffed and it sounds like he says “sex.”!

Cool! Thanks for clearing that up, jp!

… Nobody is blaming white folks or calling the show racist; but you must admit that an older black woman who is spiritual and wearing some cloth in her hair is a cultural reference.

Agreed. It’s not horribly offensive or anything, but it does invoke a stereotypical image that’s worth talking about.

However, I don’t think it’s necessarily always a black person in this role. I think it’s generally some sort of “other-as-sage” archetype that’s just prevalent in literature written by white men. I think it’s natural to make the character with ultimate wisdom be something other than themselves, a woman, a child, the elderly, a member of another race or religion, some sort of special insight borne of their innate “otherness”. Think of the ancient kung fu master, the wizened crone, the kid who sees reality in the fairy tale, the migrant worker warning of “El Diablo”, the aborigine who recites the old legends, etc. Despite how different they seem from each other, they’re essentially the same, a character who’s “different” and therefore special.

Well said, RMHPH. This also brings to mind Grandmother Willow (who I love) from the movie Pocahontas.

… the verb ‘double’ (doo-bel)

Do you pronounce it that way - with the oo’s like in “Google”?

… it didn’t take more than a second for my mind to figure it out. The lesbian full of spunk rolled around the floor laughing her arse off.

I had to look it up. Great story!!

I’m not sure if anyone’s brought her up, but Zoe from Firefly certainly doesn’t fit into the typical African-American female stereotype role of spiritual guide in contemporary sci-fi (and by the same accord, Gina Torres also fits another strong archetype of “Warrior Woman” in both her role in the Matrix as the widow of Dozer and in Xena and Cleopatra 25-25…come to think of it, Gina Torres has singlehandedly created an entirely new racial stereotype for black women in American Sci-Fi Cinema…but I digress).

Thanks for your support, aarrgghyle. What a fascinating idea about Gina Torres - I think you’re right about that. (The Matrix, while listed in the article I brought in on the cast as a perpetuator of one stereotype, is actually IMHO very progressive in its casting and character roles.) But seriously, I wonder if she’s ever been more widely recognized for her continued unique roles.

Stargate, especially the first five or so seasons had a lot of black actors. I think that is a show that managed to avoid a lot of racial stereotypes. Scrubs likes to play with stereotypes, especially with Carla. And the famous posters.

True! They’re issues that virtually everyone deals with at some point, regardless of your heritage. I think it’s a good think to keep a line open to talk about them (in a civil way, of course!).

[Casilda]

Hey Audra, would you mind sharing the citation for the article you were talking about in the podcast? I’d really appreciate it, thanks!!

[ol_whatsername]

I was listening to this week’s podcast on the long, traffic filled drive home today and had to bust out laughing at the Star Wars comparison. I know Sean called her Darth Roslin, but she should be Darth Airlock.

Chuck gets a cookie for bringing up the Asari and Mass Effect in the discussion of death being the main difference between the Cylons and the Humans. That was the first comparison that popped in my head.

I was also pleased to see 3 return. They really should change her name to X’Anna now because she was sure channeling Xena a bit Friday night, right down to the almost gleeful snarl Xena had when she was thoroughly enjoying thrashing some bad guys.

[Pike]

I was listening to this week’s podcast on the long, traffic filled drive home today and had to bust out laughing at the Star Wars comparison. I know Sean called her Darth Roslin, but she should be Darth Airlock.

I liked the early tradition of it being “Darth Something-starting-with-IN-but-minus-the-IN” E.G., “Darth Sidious”

Roslin would be “Darth Different” or possibly “Darth Spired”

[aarrgghyle]

If anyone is interested in an amazing discussion of the Matrix (in every sense, from the philosophical to the racial to the intellectual to the moral), listen to all of the commentaries on the Ultimate Edition. They are done as an ongoing dialogue between Cornell West and Ken Wilbur (Wiki them…they are both amazing intellects, and do an phenomenal job in critically analyzing and legitimizing the films as the wonderfully groundbreaking work that they are…yes, even Reloaded…). That would make for an awesome homework assignment and call-in podcast for us all if you ever plan on doing the Matrix in your outside BSG-casts.

[ol_whatsername]

I liked the early tradition of it being “Darth Something-starting-with-IN-but-minus-the-IN” E.G., “Darth Sidious”

Roslin would be “Darth Different” or possibly “Darth Spired”

True but there are some really crazy Sith names out there now, the Sith Lord in the recently completed Legacy of the Force novels being the worst I’ve ever seen, though I should say they were asking for it by letting the fans submit entries and vote for the name. The new tradition is let’s just pull a name out of a hat and go with it. I just think Roslin loves that airlock so much it should have been included in her Sith name.

[Leah]

Doesn’t the last episode of the season have to air before this one becomes the Penultimate ??? Hmmmm ???

next to the last: the penultimate scene of the play

I think it was used correctly. Now who do I need to know to get a dog tag too. I am starting to feel left out.

[Phil]

next to the last: the penultimate scene of the play

I think it was used correctly. Now who do I need to know to get a dog tag too. I am starting to feel left out.

Just send a private message with your choice to Solai and he’ll get you sorted out…

[Browncoat_Bryan]

Okay, here’s my take on it. The syndrome that is found in movies and television is the “Magical Negro”. The quintessential example is, of course, “Driving Miss Daisy”, but we can see it in other films. Will Smith did it in “The Legend of Bagger Vance”.

When I saw Elosha (sp?), I thought, “Sweet!!! She’s back.” And then I thought about the podcast that was put out back in 2007 that dealt with this issue and I figured it would come up. Now, I don’t consider Elosha to be of that type. Sure, she’s Black. Sure, she’s magical. But, she’s also dead. She is more along the lines of Marley in “A Christmas Carol” than The Ghost of Christmas Past. Now, if Elosha started singing old Negro spirituals, I would have been pissed, flown out to Vancouver and punched Ron Moore in the face.

Now, granted, my perception has been tainted by the WORST. MOVIE. I. HAVE. EVER. BEEN. FORCED. TO. WATCH. Namely, “Sex and the City”. Gods, what a frakking awful movie. Jennifer Hudson definitely plays the role of Magical Negro. She even talks “slave” when she receives the Louis Vattan purse, “Girl, I got me a Louis Vattan purse. Look at me now.” Gods, I feel like I wasted 2-1/2 hours of my life in that movie and will be judged because of it.

(As an aside, yes, I am a dude. Yes, I saw the film. Yes, I had to go on a lost bet… godsdamned Federer, losing the French Open. Yes, I had to watch ESPN all day after I watched that movie to get my testosterone levels back to normal. Sorry, ladies. I just didn’t like that movie.)

I said it before and I’ll say it again. If people have a problem with the way a story is told or with casting decisions, then, instead of blasting the show, go and make one. Write a book, draw a comic. Why not curse Andy Warhol for wasting paint making a Campbell’s soup can?

I love BSG. It’s the best show ever written. I don’t begrudge Ron Moore and his choice for Elosha.

P.S. I got Mass Effect for the PC. That game is THE BOMB!!

BTW… CHUCK IS THE COOLEST!! RANT AWAY, SON!!
Brought to you by ExacTly Awesome: The Fans of Chuck Coalition.

[FireBreathingChicken]

I was listening to this week’s podcast on the long, traffic filled drive home today and had to bust out laughing at the Star Wars comparison. I know Sean called her Darth Roslin, but she should be Darth Airlock.

That would make Baltar a Sixth Lord…

[Leah]

Awesome discussion of the mammie stereotype. BSG is one of those shows that thankfully doesn’t usually use stereotypes, but that doesn’t mean that they might not sneak in or be there but used in a different way.

I felt the mammie vibe much more from Sarah the Geminese representative (with the whole religious bit), to be honest when I saw Elosha on screen I was so thrilled to see a black woman on the screen again that the stereotype didn’t even ocurr to me. I mean, when was the last time we saw Dee?

…

I just saw a woman with a nice head band (great color) and cloths who happened to be of what we would consider African decent. I did not see anything in her dress that would give me the mammie stereotype. I know many woman that would where the same type of cloths of many ethnic groups. When I use a headband most people probably think hippie. I know this is probably a matter of perspective and setting.

[Lady_D]

Yes, I had to go on a lost bet… godsdamned Federer, losing the French Open.

are you kidding? you actually bet on Federer to win the French?:eek: against Nadal?!?!?!:eek::eek: subconsciously you must’ve really wanted to see that movie

(sorry, we’ve wandered into one of my other obsessions)

[Leah]

Well, thank you both!

Cool! Thanks for clearing that up, jp!

.

I think that what was said by Boltar through the drug was. You are pretty. Still, Do you know why I am so serene right now? Because I know God. … Therefore I know myself.

Try it and see if you think it fits.

[ol_whatsername]

That would make Baltar a Sixth Lord…

LOL! His Sith title could be Darth Sexus. It would certainly fit and I’m sure the Balcubines wouldn’t mind it.

[Audra]

Hey Audra, would you mind sharing the citation for the article you were talking about in the podcast? I’d really appreciate it, thanks!!

Sure thing: it’s here, a reprint from its original in Bitch magazine. Here’s the full citation if you want it (sans page numbers. I have the hard copy somewhere but am too lazy to find it right now):

Helford, Elyce Rae. “A Galaxy of Our Own: Searching for Black Women in Science-Fiction Film.” Bitch: Feminist Response to Pop Culture. Issue 15, Winter 2001.

If anyone is interested in an amazing discussion of the Matrix (in every sense, from the philosophical to the racial to the intellectual to the moral), listen to all of the commentaries on the Ultimate Edition. They are done as an ongoing dialogue between Cornell West and Ken Wilbur (Wiki them…they are both amazing intellects, and do an phenomenal job in critically analyzing and legitimizing the films as the wonderfully groundbreaking work that they are…yes, even Reloaded…). That would make for an awesome homework assignment and call-in podcast for us all if you ever plan on doing the Matrix in your outside BSG-casts.

Cornel West is great- thank you for the recommendation! I’ll have to check that out. Sean and Chuck will probably really dig that, too.

Now, if Elosha started singing old Negro spirituals, I would have been pissed, flown out to Vancouver and punched Ron Moore in the face.

You almost made me spit out water laughing. Wb, Bryan!

Now, granted, my perception has been tainted by the WORST. MOVIE. I. HAVE. EVER. BEEN. FORCED. TO. WATCH. Namely, “Sex and the City”. Gods, what a frakking awful movie. Jennifer Hudson definitely plays the role of Magical Negro. She even talks “slave” when she receives the Louis Vattan purse, “Girl, I got me a Louis Vattan purse. Look at me now.” Gods, I feel like I wasted 2-1/2 hours of my life in that movie and will be judged because of it.

LOL! Actually, the thing I mentioned in the podcast about reading another article recently about “sidekick” black characters was a review of that same movie. Sorry you had to suffer through it, though.

Cool! A Chuck fanclub!

[gafra]

I would be honoured to wake up laying in such a high quality gutter.

Indeed. In my experience of waking up in gutters, it is really a very quaint gutter.

gaf

[timmers]

Indeed. In my experience of waking up in gutters, it is really a very quaint gutter.

gaf

What’s that ‘oh yes please Timmers. please show us more of your quaint gutters’

‘Well ok kids, if I can get a decent 3G connection then I’ll see what I can do’

[timmers]

Well actually I finished watching the episode instead… and have just started on the podcast…

ooooh I think I hear some buttons getting pushed.

Liking the discussion on the practicality of the Triad and 'circle jerk’ing for my part.

[dxf]

Re “chick centurions”: If the Centurion receiving Batlar’s testimony were a girl, then instead of Larry, would she be Carrie?

Maybe Roslin’s wig REALLY IS CAIN’S HAIR (cue ominous music)!

All in all, I’ve got to say the GWC crew present the least self-referential podcast that I’ve heard. And, granted, the previous two episodes were an exception, but both gave a full disclaimer.

Big ups to Audible! Thanks!

[FireBreathingChicken]

LOL! His Sith title could be Darth Sexus. It would certainly fit and I’m sure the Balcubines wouldn’t mind it.

No, that wasn’t a typo, he is a Sixth Lord.

Though I do like Darth Sexus.