Did the fragile body of Gaius Baltar survive the nuclear attack on Caprica?

[HalfToaster]

My thinking: the Six is an extension of the visions Baltar has of the opera house.

I can’t remember Baltar ever responding to the opera house dreams like Athena, Roslyn, or Caprica 6. He’s been made aware of it from his own 6, but doesn’t participate in the opera house in the same manner as the others.

I think – again, think – that Baltar and Caprica Six’s programming somehow went wonky because of the nuclear blast, and fused somehow. Like, some of her code/signal/whatever got mixed up with his.

You are assuming fairly heavily that Baltar is a Cylon. Although there are lots of twists I don’t buy that he would be both on the stage and balcony of the opera house in the Hera-chase dreams. That would just be a bit much and I don’t buy it. I won’t rule out that he is something else though (he is something else, but I digress).

[dxf]

You are assuming fairly heavily that Baltar is a Cylon. Although there are lots of twists I don’t buy that he would be both on the stage and balcony of the opera house in the Hera-chase dreams. That would just be a bit much and I don’t buy it. I won’t rule out that he is something else though (he is something else, but I digress).

No, let me back up and clarify: In my thinking, Baltar is not a Cylon – though, like the apparently-resurrected Starbuck, he too has been somehow resurrected and Cylonified. I think that’s compatible with your “something else.” Which may well be the case.

Unless we’re all Cylons, which I also tend to believe, tying in with the whole happened before/again thing.

[Starbuccaneer]

Unless we’re all Cylons, which I also tend to believe, tying in with the whole happened before/again thing.

If the Chief can be a Cylon, we can all be Cylons.

[Roman_Sandstorm]

2. Assuming Baltar is not a Cylon, there were no convienent Baltar template bodies lying around for him to download into.

I think I have addressed this point in another thread somewhere regarding my idea that Kara and Baltar are Cylon constructs.

We know that it was possible that Cylons (Caprica Six at least) could have collected ‘genetic material’ from Baltar before the attack. We know, for a fact, that Cylons collected ‘samples’ from Kara while she was in hospital.

Given that Cylons are the embodiment of extremely advanced genetic engineering it is not unreasonable to suggest that they may be able to ‘grow’, ‘create’, whatever, humans in a similar manner to themselves. There seem vastly more similarities between Cylons and humans than there are differences.

3. Assuming Baltar is a Cylon, there was no ressurection hub on Caprica. You ressurect on a basestar or the Ressurection ship.

True. From what we have seen. But there must have existed some Cylon ‘infrastructure’ on Caprica prior to the attack: coordination of agents, communications, etc. There may have been laboratories. The technology on the Basestars and Resurrection Ships had to have been developed somewhere - not in space.

It doesn’t stand to reason that he would ressurect on one of those ships and then be shuttled back to the surface just to be shuttled off again

Agreed. This would be silly.

4. When Baltar approaches the Raptor he is wounded. A ressurected Baltar would not be wounded.

But we don’t know how much time passed from the ‘resurrection’ to his encounter with Helo and Sharon. His wounds were superficial, scratches mostly, which could easily have occurred during general mayhem in fleeing to safety, fighting with grannies, his fragile body scrambling through the wilderness.

I think – again, think – that Baltar and Caprica Six’s programming somehow went wonky because of the nuclear blast, and fused somehow. Like, some of her code/signal/whatever got mixed up with his.

Way too… Star Trek.

Does not explain Head! Baltar though; either in Six or in Baltar himself.

I don’t know how it works, but I think something out there can do some kind of resurrection/recreation juju.

Yep. And we have seen this technology. We don’t need ‘Ships of Light’, or ‘angels’ or Uri Geller. The frakkin’ Cylons already have this capability.

[Roman_Sandstorm]

Like what? I don’t have access to the video at the moment, but as I recall it, all we ever see is the (admittedly huge) window shatter inward.
.
You may well be right, although you need to keep in mind that cool CGI does not necessarily equal scientifically verifiable evidence.

True. My figures are very rough. The far shore of the lake appears several kilometres away. In frame-by-frame the blast wave sweeps across the distance and starts blowing in the windows in less than a second. (BTW, it is much more than just the window shattering; there is visible debris and timber, etc before the fade to black.)

Arguably, Six isn’t necessarily made of either. If they “have a plan” for Baltar, it’s possible that that particular Six who was sent to protect him was, shall we say, made of sterner stuff. A stretch, I’ll grant, but not impossible.

Nah. Too much a stretch. There is no evidence that there are any uber-Cylons (at least of the human-type models). Besides, my original point remains: even if she was made of titanium, just crouching behind her in the face of a nuclear blast wave ain’t gonna help!

[dxf]

Here’s a chestnut from over in the “Is Kara Thrace the same physical person as before?” thread, which is exploring some of the same issues:

Kara Thrace the same physical person as before?

I believe that Kara Thrace is an avatar from the Gods. I think that the Gods really do exist and that the one true Cylon God does not. Kara has been sent to lead the Human race to it’s end, because they will merge with Cylon and create a new race of beings. She’s not leading them to Earth, she’s leading them to the next evolutionary link. Roslin is the dying leading and she is leading them to Earth. That’s my theory anyway.

I see how the “avatar of the gods” theory could work.

I guess one of the bigger questions is how a resurrected Stabuck (or Baltar) could have up-to-date memories and physical characteristics. Roman Sandstorm brought this excellent (and long) RDM interview to our attention…

http://www.wired.com/entertainment/h…?currentPage=1

… in which he basically admits that the writers hadn’t fully thought through how resurrection works. And now the issue is one of the corners they’d painted themselves into.

[rockhopper]

I always did wonder how it was that Six’s body was indestructible enough to protect Baltar from the blast in the miniseries, yet clearly turned out to be more conventionally human and destructible later on. BUT, I always assumed it was just a little flaw in the story line. I.e., the creators hadn’t completely conceptualized what a cylon body could/could not do at this point, and they needed Baltar to survive the Caprica attack somehow.

So, one of the key questions to me is whether we think that this idea of Baltar or others as “cylon construct” was already envisioned by the creators at this point in the series. If not, then this is a mistake. If so, it’s a major clue that’s been in front of our eyes the whole time.

[Doc]

I always did wonder how it was that Six’s body was indestructible enough to protect Baltar from the blast in the miniseries, yet clearly turned out to be more conventionally human and destructible later on.

Keep in mind that Six did die as a result of protecting Baltar.

[dxf]

I always did wonder how it was that Six’s body was indestructible enough to protect Baltar from the blast in the miniseries, yet clearly turned out to be more conventionally human and destructible later on. BUT, I always assumed it was just a little flaw in the story line. I.e., the creators hadn’t completely conceptualized what a cylon body could/could not do at this point, and they needed Baltar to survive the Caprica attack somehow.

So, one of the key questions to me is whether we think that this idea of Baltar or others as “cylon construct” was already envisioned by the creators at this point in the series. If not, then this is a mistake. If so, it’s a major clue that’s been in front of our eyes the whole time.

I don’t think this is significant, but remember: THAT version of Caprica Six had the glowing spine. Maybe them glowin’ Cylons is extra-tuff!

Major clue that’s been in front of our eyes the whole time, def’nitely.

[Roman_Sandstorm]

I don’t think this is significant, but remember: THAT version of Caprica Six had the glowing spine. Maybe them glowin’ Cylons is extra-tuff!

Thinking more on this… and being 100% honest with myself. (This forum is great in that there can be serious discussion, yet remain friendly and light-hearted and courteous, so it engenders an atmosphere where one can actually question oneself, and not become too dogmatic. This is rare in my experience in internet forums. Pats on backs to all of us! LOL.)

I’m prepared to admit the ‘glowing spine’ may well have been a ‘cinematic’ device, a bit like ‘sounds in space’, or ‘banking’ of spacecraft, or bullet shots blowing people backwards. And it may even have just been a ‘mistake’ that the producers did not want to pursue as the story progressed.

So… if I’m prepared to accept that… it is possible that the survival of Baltar from the nuclear explosion blast wave (of possible supersonic winds, intense heat, massive air pressure, ionizing radiation, and destructive debris… sigh…) was along similar lines, and that it was either a slip, or just another stretch of credulousness to accept.

Of course, this blows a big hole in my ‘Kara and Baltar being Cylon constructs’ theory. :mad: but, as a scientist I am prepared to accept new evidence and theories and adapt/modify/discard (sob) my own if needs be.

I’m not saying I’m changing… yet… but if I can be convinced Baltar did survive, either from future show events, or production information/interview/discussion-type canon, then…

Major clue that’s been in front of our eyes the whole time, def’nitely.

It is a wonderful image, and a great piece of CGI, fitting perfectly into the introductory theme. But if it is a mistake, or not relevant, or even contradicts subsequent show storyline, then it has been rather… sloppy… or unfairly misleading for it to have remained in place.

[GalaxyRanger]

Can we have an expert opinion on whether it was theoretically possible to survive this blast from a distance where “only” his windows got smashed?

All you nuclear scientists, step forward.

[BadgerSpoon]

Thinking more on this… and being 100% honest with myself. (This forum is great in that there can be serious discussion, yet remain friendly and light-hearted and courteous, so it engenders an atmosphere where one can actually question oneself, and not become too dogmatic. This is rare in my experience in internet forums. Pats on backs to all of us! LOL.)

So true. I’d even go so far as to say it’s not rare, it’s downright unique. The consistently high level of intelligence and actual understanding of spelling and grammar are fairly refreshing as well.

Can we have an expert opinion on whether it was theoretically possible to survive this blast from a distance where “only” his windows got smashed?

All you nuclear scientists, step forward.

How about the next best thing?

We can’t really determine what the yield of their warheads would be, although they seem to be more tactical than genocidal (since they’d probably be intended for attacking spacecrafts, not rival nations), so I’d imagine it’s fairly low, maybe even sub-Hiroshima power. I think we can also assume that a culture with FTL space-faring vehicles and advanced robotics technologies probably builds homes somewhat sturdier than those in this Earth-based simulation.

[dxf]

I’ve just realized that, in other threads, I’ve been arguing that the Head characters are manifestations of an external force.

I don’t know.

I still think both Baltar and Starbuck have been resurrected somehow.

And I agree with Roman Sandstorm: I think the glowing red spine, at this point, can safely be interpreted as a poetic device.

And, also, the board’s overall civil tone is quite nice. Cheers.

[dxf]

Bumping this thread up, if anyone has fresh ideas. Cheers all.

[Keara]

The more I think about it, the more I think no, which would, I suppose, make him the obvious candidate to be the 5th and final cylon.

[Old_Timer]

Gaius Baltar is as tough as nails. No pathetic, measly thermonuclear detenation is going to harm him. He spits in the eye of such meager aggression and challenges all who dare fight him. He is a LICHEN!

[Pike]

Gaius Baltar is as tough as nails. No pathetic, measly thermonuclear detenation is going to harm him. He spits in the eye of such meager aggression and challenges all who dare fight him. He is a LICHEN!

Also, apparently familiar with project meatshield.

[Old_Timer]

Also, apparently familiar with project meatshield.

Well - he is a brilliant scientist with a background in biochemistry.

[missmuffet]

I think that in the “real” world - our world - no, Baltar probably wouldn’t have survived.

I think that it was all about imagery. It looks cool to have the explosion hit the glass like that and to have Baltar duck behind Six. I don’t think it goes beyond that.

[Topgun]

I voted yes. I think it’s the intention of the writers/creators that Baltar did survive the blast, and that the body of Baltar we see in season 4.5 is the same body of Baltar we saw in the miniseries.

Didn’t anyone ever see those 1960’s filmstrips on surviving nuclear attack? Duck under a school desk, (or a voluptuous blond), and you are good to go.