Did Nemesis kill Star Trek?

Television, Movies Games and Books Star Trek
#1

Now yes there is a new movie coming out that I am very grateful for and Enterprise went on for a little while, but I driving at something Harve Bennett said, but I will get to that in a moment.

Now I actually liked Nemesis, even if there were a few things I didn’t like about it. Such as seeing Wesley Crusher (and I always liked the character of Wesley Crusher, I was 9 when TNG came on the air in 1987 so I sort of identified the character but he left Starfleet and went on to a “bigger existence,” so seeing him on the screen to me seemed like poor taste. I also didn’t like the shield special effects, they look bland to me and I missed the big bubble shield effect you see with the Borg tractor beam hit the Enterprise in First Contact. I also felt the ending was stolen a bit from The Undiscovered Country where you have the Enterprise trying to defeat a cloaked ship that can fire while under cloak. And then there is the death of Data, this is sort of a two part issue for me. One they had plenty of shuttle craft transporters that would have worked even if the Enterprise’s weren’t working and two, I think many of us would have rather have seen any other of the cast die except for Data, the only known fully functioning (not counting B4 who is a moron) Soong type android.

Now back to Harve Bennett, now on the special edition DVD for Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn at some point on either an interview or the commentary he talks about the first test audience after the death of Spock. Saying that ending had such a sad and somber effect on them, that he felt that movie ending would kill the franchise; so they changed it. Then we have the ending we have now, that is sad, but also uplifting and gives hope. “There are always possibilities Spock said,” and “If Genesis is really life from death, then I must visit this place again” were put into the ending with other things that made you leave your seats with a very different vibe if you will.

Nemesis left us with a feeling of being depressed, Data is now dead, (with some hope of Spock and McCoy thing going on there) the Enterprise has the crap beat out of it, the crew is all leaving (Crusher, Riker, Troi) and no since of hope. It left us with a feeling of ending, and so Star Trek ended.

#2

No way! Voyager and Enterprise double-teamed it, then the mis-handling of Nemesis stomped the corpse. But I kind of thought that B4 humming the song Data had recently sung at the wedding and Picard’s slight smile right after was kind of our “always possibilities” moment, which pays off in the Star Trek: Countdown four-part comic miniseries.

#3

Don’t forget, Nemesis was up against The Two Towers at the box office. It’s not the best of the “Star Trek” films, but in no way is it the worst, either. Watching it again this week, I’d really forgotten how good it is: it is a dark and gritty action film, with some well drawn characters and a few moments of levity. I agree, B-4 is a moron but, more to the point, was a moronic idea – clearly a “leave the door ajar” thing for getting Data back (although any attempt to make B4 into Data just undercuts the point about B4 needing to become more than his programming, right?). But I also think, at that point, the public appetite for Trek just wasn’t there to justify another film. That’s why the movie coming out this week (WOO HOO!) is a reboot. The mass public is no longer interested in continuing from the TNG continuity. Fans are a different matter, maybe, but I sort of think that continuity has run its course, too. Bring on the reboot!

#4

I like Nemesis and dont see it as the killer of Trek at all. I felt it was a good film, had good action, amazing effects, and gave the TNG crew one last go before going their separate ways. Wesley being at the wedding for like 5 seconds was no big deal to me. He was there, you either saw him or didnt, the end.

The main death blow I could see with Star Trek wasnt any movie or series, if anything it was the studios making them. For over a decade you had Trek series after Trek series, each trying something new to stay fresh, but not leaving any time for audiences to truly prepare for a new series. TNG was so good because there was a huge gap between it and the original, people were ready for a new one, but after TNG you had DS9, VOY, & ENT, even overlapping each other at points. Thats what killed the old Trek, an over saturation in the market so the studios could try to rake in the bucks.

#5

Do you really think Star Trek is dead? I don’t think so. Let’s see what happens with ST XI.

#6

Well yes it did feel that it was dead… maybe now it is just being reborn. But it is fair to say for the last several years ago that trail had run very cold.

#7

I would like to point out that Law & Order, and Law & Order SVU, ect ect has managed to run the shows non stop with great success. So has CSI, so the shows running all the time might not be the issue.

#8

I think Nemesis exposed how formulaic and under-budgeted the ST movies had become, especially when The Two Towers is out showing how to do big-budget awesome.

It wasn’t terrible, but I certainly don’t think it was good.

#9

I can certainly understand what you are saying about being out done in the face of the two towers there… But I am not trying to say I didn’t like or think it was a bad movie. I mean Star Trek did survive Star Trek V! I am just saying that Nemesis just left us with a non hopeful feeling I guess.

#10

Could it be that it felt like the end of that crew’s journeys rather than that it was a bad movie? Contrast Undiscovered Country and Generations to Nemesis: the end felt much less optimistic and like the characters were ready for their next great adventures (except Data, whose readiness, I think, contributed to his sacrifice). The end of Nemesis felt less consistent with the rest of the Trek-verse message and attitude, I think.

I always trusted that Trek was still alive, although perhaps in stasis for a while. I did, however, worry that it would not be up and about ready for new adventures for some time… I thought maybe not in my twenties at worst. This had more to do with the creative burnout among the makers than with audience tastes, IMO, despite much speculation that in a post-9/11 world Americans wanted a universe with a more realistic confrontation of the negative aspects of human nature, perhaps a more precarious universe and less optimistic attitude. That type of taste is just temporary.

#11

If they had ended the movie with the “deleted scene” in which Picard meets his new first officer, who immediately makes an arse of himself, it would have had a more “hopeful” feel at the end, maybe. Or at least lighter. :wink:

#12

Now, I’ll preface this by saying that I’m not a huge Nemesis fan. I don’t hate the movie, but it’s certainly not the first one I reach for when I’m in the mood for Trek.

That said, I think Nemesis gets a bad rap. People seem to generally migrate towards one of two arguments when complaining about it. They either look down on it upon comparison to other, greater Trek movies, or they bash on its fairly somber tone.

First and foremost, I think this complaint-by-comparison is really unfair (albeit inevitable). Trekkies can’t honestly expect every Trek movie that comes out to be Wrath of Khan. Anytime you have an extended series of films, there’s going to be fluctuation; fluctuation in quality, fluctuation in approach, fluctuation of tone etc. Even the Almighty Trek can’t produce A material every single time. So, to question the future of a franchise based on one arguably less-than-stellar flick (as was done when Nemesis came out) seems rather alarmist to me.

Now, as far as the tone goes, this was actually one of the things I liked most about Nemesis. Because of Roddenberry’s future’s so bright you gotta wear shades outlook, people don’t seem to be able to handle any sort of tonal shift, regardless of how “right” it is for the story. It’s as if the only way Trek is allowed to get away with a down note is to cancel it out with an equal-or-greater up note. I appreciate movies that understand how to properly balance emotional themes and such, and to demand that all Trek movies have happy endings is incredibly limiting. I mean, think about it: what would’ve happened if Empire ended with the happy reunion of everyone inside the sickbay to congratulate Luke on the sweet new hand? Weak, right?

Anyways, incredibly long post short: no, Nemesis didn’t kill Trek. Nothing killed it, as is evident by the new movie. The loss of faith from a significant portion of the fan base put it in ICU for a few years, though.

#13

As a trek fan since the original series was on the air the first time, i have a terrible admission to make.

I did not see Nemisis until yesterday. AND i didn’t even realize i had not seen it until i started listen to the podcast and had no idea what they were talking about. so I watch it (what i thought was again) and realized i had never actually watched it.

having now seen it. I almost wish they had let patick stewart play both roles.

now to be on topic… I don’t think it Killed trek. but it did end TNG run. And the writers did not leave room for any voyager movies. and nobody cared enough about DS9 or Enterprise to spend any money on a movie.

trek needed someone to come along and rethink it. and get it back into the Trek universe. (being here and trying to go there…where no one has gone before.) (DS9-did not GO anywhere) (voyager- was about being there and trying to get back here) and now somebody has done just that. and when this version of the francise has run its course, someone new with think of something else… and so Star Trek will continue to live long, and prosper! IMHO

#14

One more thing: Where do I get the desktop wallpaper of the Enterprise emerging from the clouds of Titan, where it is set against Saturn… All I could think was: I want that on my computer now!