Controversy! Discuss

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#1

What with school starting up again, I’m a bit behind in my recreational reading, so I just stumbled across this piece at io9.com, Scifi Nostalgia: Is SF Too Obsessed With Its History?

The post in question refers to a piece by Ian Sales with regards to what kinds of sci-fi is ideal for introducing new readers for to the genre - and he (evidently, controversially) proposes that the “classics” are perhaps not the best way to bring readers into the fold.

Thoughts?

My own position is very similar to Sales’ - but the comments on the post at io9 are pretty interesting in those who are defending their favorite “old school” writers and those who take a position on what sci-fi written today should look like. Interesting reading, I look forward to seeing what the geniuses of GWC have to say about it :slight_smile:

#2

Any good scifi is timeless scifi. Would you make a student of English literature skip Shakespeare or Beowulf because they’re “too old”? Hardly!

Same thing with classic SF. Some of the best stuff that’s ever been written in this genre comes from the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s.

And see, anybody who says those works are dated because they’re not up-to-date on technology and such has totally missed the point of scifi. It’s not about the technobabble, it’s about the vision. And a really cool vision from the 1950s can still be better than a crappy one from today.

#3

Well, maybe skip Beowulf. Details to follow.

#4

OLD TIMER! I was just saying yesterday that I missed seeing you around! You’ve either been off the board or posting to threads that I have not. So glad to see you! :slight_smile:

#5

To be fair, he’s not saying ‘skip them.’ He’s saying ‘don’t start with them.’

I tend to agree.

#6

Pike’s right, I wouldn’t start the beginning sci-fi reader off with the classics, as they are, well, from another time. And most people today don’t go out of their way to read books from another time.

Where I think there gets to be a bit more conflict is when people start talking about the ideas vs. prose divide… and I’m still not quite sure where I stand on that.

#7

Most people I know under the age of 25 have never seen a black and white movie. Most never would. If they can’t be enticed by true classics like the original Invasion of the Body Snatchers or (soon-to-be the original) The Day the Earth Stood Still, how can they be interested in Asimov or Clarke?

Damn kids. Get off my lawn.

#8

I completely agree with you Ranger. The books that I love:

The Foundation universe (the linked series with all 7 Foundation books, the 4 Robot Novels, I Robot, Bicentenial Man, 3 Empire Novels, and Nemsis) is truly wonderful in my opinion
The Odyssey series by Clarke
Rendevous with Rama (as well as the three follow on’s co-written with Gentry Lee)
Starship Troopers
Stranger in a Strange Land
The Songs of Distant Earth
Jannisaries
Falkenberg’s Legions
The Mote in God’s Eye
Hammerfall
Footfall
Lucifer’s Hammer
Asimov’s many short stories (in a lot of ways more applicable to now than his novels)
A Wrinkle in Time
Perelandria
That Hideous Strength
The Mars Trilogy (Red, Green, and Blue)

It’s very difficult for me to read anything by Asimov and not come away thinking.

#9

An argument can certainly be made for easing any newby into any unfamiliar genre. Sure, shock their socks off with mind blowing content. Just don’t make the NEW reader fight anachronisms and out-of-date stylistic conventions to get to the good stuff. makes sense for an intro.

What I’m not sure about is whether there’s good reason for the argument.
I’m pretty sure that seeing Star Wars and Planet of the Apes when I was young was what piqued my interest to eventually read Niven, Asimov, Wells etc., and I imagine that’s a common kind of progression; to go from the more to the less familiar and accessible, as tolerances are built and concepts and conventions learned.

Honestly, who’s first play is Macbeth, first book is War & Peace, first movie is Citizen Cane? So, who is this mysterious person that is being “introduced” to scifi, and how have they avoided it’s permeation in our society up until this point?

Isn’t this really just another debate on what “good” scifi is, in disguise?

#10

On a related note, Bryan Fuller is in favor of bringing Star Trek back to TV.

http://www.trektoday.com/news/170908_06.shtml

#11

I think sometimes it’s better to ease young folks into things like classics (of any genre). For example - I would probably never have watched the original Battlestar Galactica prior to becoming a fan of the re-imagining. Now that I have become a fan I will most likely go back (once the new series is over) and watch the original.

The same thing with Shakespeare - many young people of my generation became fans of Romeo and Juliet because of the Baz Luhrman remake starring Leo DiCaprio. Regardless of how you view the film (good, bad or indifferent) it cause alot of people my age to discover and eventually love Shakespeare.

#12

I still consider myself a fairly new reader of sci-fi, the genre itself is intimidating to even broach. On top of that, there’s just as much craaaaap as there is good, the newbie to the arena will have a hard time even knowing what is good & what isn’t.

I’m of the opinion that the classics are classic because they are timeless. This also means they will be there when the reader is ready for them. If I was forced to start with the classics, I wouldn’t have. Whatever gets them reading to begin with is ok by me. Asimov & Heinlein will still be there.

#13

I utterly disagree with this. Hell I haven’t even heard of the contemporary authors he listed. Classic scifi is classic because like everything else that’s classic it’s timeless. You can’t tell me that the Starship Troopers or The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress isn’t relevant. And this bloggers “It’s written terribly” nonsense is just that. What a snob

I just took a gander at the bibliographies from the modern authors he recommended and I haven’t heard of one single book they’ve written. I’m not some classic scifi snob or something, John Scalzi’s Old Man’s War is my favorite bar none scifi book (Right above Starship Troopers), but it’s gotta at least be you know…somewhat known to be considered good imo

#14

DP, I have to disagree with you about Heinlein - I found it dated and in some ways personally deeply offensive, and if that had been my first introduction to sci-fi, I wouldn’t have given the genre another chance. I also can’t stand the prose.

Which is why I wouldn’t say that no one should ever read it - but given the people I know who I would be likely to introduce to sci-fi, and given that their tastes are probably not that dissimilar to my own, I would not recommend they read that until they are already experienced in the genre (if at all).

But again, that’s just my opinion and my thoughts in the context I live and work in, and considering my own IRL acquaintances - YMMV.

#15

Booooo how can you not like Heinlein. What is offensive about it

#16

My response from when I read it is here. As a pacifist and progressive feminist, it’s really not my style, as you might imagine.

#17

I can see objecting over the pacifism ideas but i think Heinlein makes some pretty strong female characters…Look at Friday. And in Moon the women play strong leading parts of the family enclave. But Heinlein did like war (which i agree with personally…well I dont think war is good but i think it is necessary)

I personally think its better to get kids into the modern stuff first nowadays. Give them some one like Gibson or Stephenson who have modern tech and what not but still have writing styles that are literally relevant.

I think if you want to start kids off on the old stuff you could probably go with the more fluffy Sci-fi like Heinlens dime store stuff…ala Have Space Suit will Travel or Space Cadet (which actually i find predicted the Cell phone or one of the books that did.). Or you could go the route that i did which was Harry Harrison. He wrote fun Sci-fi, often comical. I would recommend the Stainless Steel Rat series which to this day is still one of my favorites. Bill the Galactic hero is more silly but still fun.

Another possible way to introduce them to the “classical” authors is to do it via a book of short stories, of which there are many in the sci fi book world. This way someone could ease into a writing style and also get a glimpse of what the old writers did.

#18

If I was going to give a book to a younger kid to read it would probably have to be Ender’s Game flat out.

#19

Do you consider Enders Game a classic or modern SF story. I personally consider it a modern story.

[Edit] Where in fact does one make the change from classic to modern. Can we place it at the Moon landing (1969)? The birth of the Internet (mid 90’s really)? The home PC (early 80’s for all intensive purposes)? Or is it more like the comic books where we have the golden age and the silver age etc.

I think i would probably put it at the home PC. I think the authors who started publishing after that are when we see a definitive change in ideas and more so how we look at the ideas. Before that computers were strange and mysterious things. Nowadays it seems odd to not have more than one computer.

#20

Lister, that’s a great question about periodization… I haven’t read extensively enough in the period you’re talking about to know, but I’d like to encourage anyone else who has to jump in, because it’s pretty interesting to read. And I have nothing new to contribute. :frowning: