Breaking the Fourth Wall

Listening to Ron Moore’s commentary for last week’s “No Exit” and there’s a gem of a monologue from Ellen to Boomer that was cut out in the editing room. I understand why (as it might be a bit too self-referential) but I love it anyway:

Self awareness is not confined to the “real world”.

In theater, fictional characters are sometimes given a form of self-awareness. This is known as “breaking the fourth wall”.

The device is a form of metafiction, allowing characters to address the audience directly and comment on the narrative in which they themselves are participants. In doing so, the characters transcend their fictive nature and enter in a dialectical relationship with their viewer, with each side seeking to persuade the other the innate truth of their reality.

But does the character actually exist? Does it have form and shape beyond the page on which it is written? Can it ever truly break the fourth wall and address the unseen, undreamt of audience that watches its every move from the safety beyond the footlights?

The Lords of Kobol once felt that men could never break the fourth wall, could never look upon the gods with understanding and grasp the divine nature of life.

They believed this until one day men stole their fire and created the first Cylons, the first artifical life, and then men in his arrogance believed Cylons could never break the fourth wall and men believed that right up until the moment the first Centurions were built and then the great exodus from paradise began.

You see Boomer, we are not finite creations, we have the ability to evolve. You have so much more potential.

Interesting. I would really like to see this episode before it was whittled down.

Probably on the dvd at the end of the year?

Also in this monologue Ellen talks again about the Lords of Kobol confirming that there was three different parties living on the planet: The Lord of Kobol, the humans and the cylons. Human stole the knowledge from the Lords to create the cylons. We’ll hopefully learn something about the Lords of Kobol in the remaining few episodes (unless they wanna keep this for ‘Caprica’)

This kind of fits into my theory of “the final five aren’t really cylons”
See link here

We know or at least suspect that the 13th tribe left kobol early. What if they didn’t leave, rather were banished? Banished because they stole the secret about creating cylons…

Good news is that I think RDM said the scene was shot. So that means it will likely be in the DVDs as a deleted scene.

Well, Tory (sic?) said in No Exit that the humans created “us”. And they are Cylons, although “fundamentally different” from the S7/8. We know from the metallic job found on Erf and the FF foreseeing a revolution on Erf as a consequence of their creation.

Having written that - there certainly is a reasonable chance that the 13th was banished from Kobol, as much as they decided to leave. Also, this suggestion - there were religious reasons for them leaving - namely their worship of the god whose name must not be spoken. That could be monotheism if Judaism teaches us anything. That issue could also lead to banishment and/or wanting to leave.

Finally, if the humans created the 13th and they wanted to leave, because of shabby treatment by the Lords and/or were compelled to leave by the Lords, Kobol may not have been quite the paradise of co-existence as has been handed down through the ages. (I strongly suspect that we shall find that to be the case.)

I don’t believe the 13th tribe were cylons. We have already seen that they couldn’t create flesh bodies. How could they then possibly evolve into human (oids) ? The final 5 are erflings, decendants from the 13th (human) colony. The S7 are more human than cylon, and the raiders and centurians are hybrid. The true cylons are the remnants from the first cylon war and were all machine. Sentient, but machine nontheless.

Wow. I want to see that scene (yes, perhaps too self-referential – but I love it!).

Yes, and who are these Lords? If they are not the “gods”, and if they created “humans”, are “humans” also an artificial life, albeit organic life?

Wasn’t it determined in “Sometime a Great Notion”, that the inhabitants of Earth/Erf (the 13th Tribe) were Cylon. This was concurrred by analysis by both the Cylon and the Colonial humans.

I think RDM referred to that monologue as having a rather writer’s hand; it’s not really suitable for the show, except to cause a double entendre as putting the monologue in itself is breaking a fourth wall.

The fourth wall trope is just a cool story beat that should be used sparingly. Sex and the City was one long over-arcing fourth wall where Carrie Bradshaw often narrated to the audience what was going on. :slight_smile:

Right. But again, my point is, “What are cylons” ?

The FF erflings “created” the S7 humanoid cylons. Correct?

So if you are a S7 humanoid cylon doing an analysis of remains on Erf, what conclusion are they going to come to?

That they are more like “you” than they are like humans - which is why you call them “Cylons”. But clearly there are two types of humanoid Cylons.

We know what S7 Cylons are - more or less. We have never known much about what a FF Cylon is - except that they were created on Kobol by humans (so says Tory - sic?). At this point what we know is that they are not “humans” and they are not S7 type Cylons. They resurrect (apparently a process developed on Kobol - BY HUMANS). They procreate with each other. They age. They are stronger than humans. They appear to be monotheistic (their 5 priests worshipped the god whose name must not be spoken).

So, they seem to be sort of hulons or cymans.

And while were at it - what were/are the Lords of Kobol. I am sticking with S7
type Cylons - from an earlier cycle.

Me too. I hope it is indeed on the DVD.
RDM said it might be better suited to the stage then filmed, and I’d tend to agree. I love the conceit as a consistent devise when used well (Our Town, A Chorus Line. Ferris Bueller’s Day Off), but talking about breaking the wall seems too literary a reference for what could be expressed more experientially.

That being said, isn’t RDM just setting us up for BSG the musical?

I would love that. Songs about Nicky’s parentage, Hot Dog’s rash (obviously with its own actor), and a revenge song from Scar.

Like Troy McClure’s Planet of the Apes.

Now that you’re talking about it, Ellen would have beern a formidable rival to Samantha from Sex & The City (that’s a Geek Deathmatch poll there!)

As long as Neil Patrick Harris is in it…

I wish! Too bad they killed Gaeta…I know James Callis and Michael Trucco are musicians in real life, though. And who knows, maybe when Tory does ask about that frakkin’ song… crosses fingers :stuck_out_tongue:

I think you have something here.

And who is the god, whose name cannot be spoken?
Could it be Balter?
At this point NOTHING could surprise me.

Anybody remember when or what scene/episode the reference about “the god whose name cannot be spoken” comes from?

OK - here we go. The sacred scrolls reference the Temple of the Five (on the algae planet) being dedicated by the 5 priests to the god they worshipped - the god whose name must not be spoken. FYI - info out there advises that ancient Hebrews had a name for God that so translated.

Then you have Elosha talking about the jealous Lord of Kobol, who wished to be placed above all the other Lords, having something to do with the strife that caused the 12 to leave Kobol 2,000 years after the 13th.

There is speculation that the 2 are one and the same - but I doubt that.

I think the first above is a “good” god. And just that - a divinity born of the faith of the 13th - not a corporeal being. And also evidence that the 13th was a monotheistic “culture” itself. Which would be one more reason for them to leave Kobol 4,000 years ago and ties into Ellen believing that a monotheistic faith meant there was hope for the Centurions of the 12 Colonies. We shall never learn whether He/She really exists - it will be a matter of faith.

Meanwhile, the latter is a “bad” god and, if somehow tied into a previous cycle’s version of the S7, he most likely is the equivalent of, you guessed it, John Cavil.

FWIT - my latest thinking on the cycle is numerically listed on a thread with a title something like The One True God - it’s from the past couple of days.

Yea, Buffy has a musical as well as a silent episode! We should request for those on the new caprica episodes! heheh… :smiley: