All about the Watchtower

hey all,

I’ve been meaning to post this thread for a long time, now I can’t remember if I’ve said this before (then I’ll say it again… <so say we all>)…

RDM, in his BSD commentary/podcasts, readily admitted that he’s a big fan of the song. Michael Hogan (who plays Saul Tigh) says he’d like the Jimi Hendrix version playing at his funeral (watch the sci-fi Q&A’s).

Then there’s the Biblical reference, the end-time innuendoes. (Is innuendo the correct application of the word here? Audra?)

Finally, I’d like to point out, the Watchtower is also part of the Tarot pack, in the Major arcana set. It desribes a fall-from-grace; A man falling from the tower (contrast with the Fool <sic> who is about to trip at the precipice <sic sic> ). Sadly, there’s no thief in the tarot pack.

Just trying to keep things dark & ominous here.

cough All ALONG the Watchtower cough :stuck_out_tongue:

I think he used ‘about’ intentionally, as his post is indeed all about the Watchtower as a symbol in BSG and other places.

yeah but he’s explaining what it is ABOUT

Oh ok, well, it’s not that big of a deal but he said “the song” after what I thought was the song being named incorrectly. Guess I’ll go back to my hole now.

You know you’ve spent to much time on the GWC boards if…

…if you see an exchange like this and automatically thinks it’s an IYKWIM that you’re just not creative (or would it be perverse?) enough to see. :smiley:

Anyway, I’m sure this has been discussed before, but it was new and exciting to me. So, in the process of Googling the lyrics for “Watchtower” so I could take a more critical look, I ran across an essay by “America’s most renowned Bob Dylan critic,” Paul Williams. These comments about “Watchtower” really struck me as interesting:

“Its ends have been twisted, and taped together. In another universe, Dylan would begin: ‘All along the watchtower, the princes kept the view…Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl.’ The second and third verses would then be conversation between the two riders, the Joker and the Thief; and ‘Let us not talk falsely now…’ would close the song with comfort.
But only in this universe, with the song dissatisfying because the end seems to be in the middle of things, and the beginning stuck in there on the third verse, only in this world can the real claustrophobia of the Joker come through to us all. Because indeed, ‘There must be some way out of here’—what more natural reaction, caught on the Mobius strip?”

All I can say is, RDM is a genius. He knew we’d all twist ourselves up in knots trying to figure out what the actual words of the song might apply to in the BSG 'verse, and though there probably are some crazy convergences between BSG and Dylan imagery, RDM may very well have used this song as much for its structure as for its imagery. “All this has happened before, all this will happen again”–it is like being caught on the Mobius strip, and our characters have been trying to find “some way out of here” since we met them. After reading parts of this essay, I get the feeling that the jumbled-up but still comprehensible structure of “Watchtower” may be a model or at very least an inspiration for how the “big picture” story and cyclical time are going to pan out. [spoiler]It would also fit well with those photos from the finale of various characters in flashbacks; the end of the story may very well not turn out to be all that linear.[/spoiler]

Another note: interestingly, the way the song was aired at the end of “Crossroads Part II” is very close to that “alternate universe” version of “Watchtower” Williams describes: the aired version doesn’t include the third verse, so the song as aired is only a conversation between the Joker and the Thief, and it does end on the relative “comfort” of “…and this is not our fate/So let us not talk falsely now/The hour is getting late.” I’m getting a sneaking suspicion that RDM read Paul Williams’s book…

You’re SPOT ON~! :smiley:

I think I just made the connection as to how the lyrics correspond to Tarot cards and their meanings in the BSGverse. Check this out :

The Watchtower… as in the tarot card, represents humanity in the BSGverse as a whole. It represents a fall from grace due to pride, arrogance, etc… In this case the arrogance bit relates to the CYLON.

The Fool… as in the tarot card, signifies someone full of knowledge and wisdom, yet trips over the Precipice (sic) due to some folly. In olden times, the Fool or The Joker, doubled as the king’s advisor who gave off advice through analogy, metaphor and… double entendre. The Fool in the BSGverse is… Gaius frakkin’ Baltar.

The Thief in the Tarot pack is the Seven of Swords. To quote from a website, It implies that someone is stealing something from you, your honor, your ideas, your time, that one must use a roundabout solution to come to a head. Read it all here : http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/basics/sevens.shtml

I just happened to coincide with a theory which I came up on my own, but some other guy also concluded using a different train of logic : that the number 7 relates to the final CYLON - the Thief card - the 7 of Swords represents the final CYLON~!!! But I don’t agree that it’s Boomer - she’s already had her own reveal. Read it here : http://www.buddytv.com/articles/battlestar-galactica/battlestar-galactica-boomer-is-20573.aspx

Also, notice from the BSG code that the final CYLON is actually model no. 7
Read it here : http://www.spacewesterns.com/articles/60/

someone has waaaay to much time…AWESOME post

http://www.reasontorock.com/tracks/watchtower.html

read it and weep… no really… for hardcore fans only… :smiley:

I’m really not the Biblical sort but these verses seem to relate:

Book of Isaiah (21:5–9)
Prepare the table, watch in the watchtower, eat, drink: arise, ye princes, and anoint the
For thus hath the LORD said unto me, Go, set a watchman, let him declare what he seeth.
And he saw a chariot with a couple of horsemen, a chariot of asses, and a chariot of camels; and he hearkened diligently with much heed:
And he cried, A lion: My lord, I stand continually upon the watchtower in the daytime, and I am set in my ward whole nights:
And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, with a couple of horsemen. And he answered and said, Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and all the graven images of her gods he hath broken unto the ground.
O my threshing, and the corn of my floor: that which I have heard of the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, have I declared unto you.
The burden of Dumah. He calleth to me out of Seir, Watchman, what of the night? Watchman, what of the night?
The watchman said, The morning cometh, and also the night: if ye will enquire, enquire ye . . .

All of which means to me that when we continue the story on Earth we’ll meet this kind of watchman character who’ll advance the plot.

Now I am off to read that post about the watchtower lyrics…

I’ve read that article before; it’s fantastic.

In my mind, the song is about the conflict between order (symbolized by the Watchtower) and chaos (the joker and the thief are both chaotic archetypes) and more literally the disconnect between the upper echelon of society and the lower. How this connects to BSG, I’m not sure. Perhaps the Cylons, once the agent of chaos and the lower echelon, has come to overthrow the Colonials, a long-standing agent of order and the upper echelon?

You guys raised some good points about the structure of the song though, and the overlaps in imagery. It will be interesting to see if the ending has anything to do with the song.

Here ya go, for the fun of it, fan poetry!

Prophesy

The pillared statue has struck the ground
Its arrow strikes the earth
Beautiful men and women, too, have all lost their mirth
Death has come with a whine, come down from the skies,
mown down drummers keeping time
for a civilization

which didn’t expect to die

The falcon cannot find its nest, now a ragged twig at best
Chaos is what surrounds, enveloped by the sounds of innocents
rapt by their parent’s birth
brought by a new con-fusion into a new society of earth
soon
“passionate in intensity,” vexed into a dream
“by a rocking cradle,” by a rocking cradle rocketing
past a vale of screams gone unnoticed for eons?
No one for sure is sure
what slouches or what dances,
what anything is truly worth

“All along the watchtower Princes kept the view”

They knew death was coming someday,
but couldn’t add two and two

Riders were approaching, the wind–it began to howl
a song of singleness, of one and only one
with all their number come together the war
was finally put on
while wearing masks
with red eyes they fought, this multitude
like vipers slithering, standards billowing in the name of truth

But while tired they didn’t quail, nor set the white flag for peace
Though many among them petitioned, there was no relief

They were heard to say: 'We’ve all been here before!"
only to be answered through the din of weapons: “So here we are again!”
so they fell one by one until the bleeding was all done, until was standing only one
with piety for a plan for society to be built again

But as was said we’ve been through that, no need for it to be repeated
This time we will not fall–we will not fail so say we all!
But within the tide’s rush we miss the falls
and so we are defeated again, and again, and again . . .

hello brother 64K~! Nice to have you here on my thread. :wink:

We are the minority amongst the human sheeple :stuck_out_tongue: heheh…

Say, I wonder if anyone has ever heard a rendition of All Along the Watchtoweron bagpipes ?

Just a thought.

PS a No. 8 asked if you were free for a barbeque? We’ll meet up on a raptor… heheh :smiley:

Dude, did you read my theory on the tarot card connection? :stuck_out_tongue: heheh It’s right at the beginning of the thread :cool:

This thread is awesome. Especially since not too long ago I became almost obsesses with the song and the spin-offs that were introduced as various musical themes in seasons 3 & 4. As I listened over and over, one image came into my mind over and over (go figure) and I painted it as the first in my new blog project that I’ve started. http://www.theartisticgeekblog.com/2010/11/28/week-1-all-along-the-watchtower/ i feel like this thread brings up even more ideas that I might like to use someday. :smiley:

This is my very first post – ever, so here goes…
I’m usually a sappy, happy-ever-after fan, so I’m surprised at how much I am enjoying BSG. (Been watching the DVDs.) I think it’s BRILLIANT.
Just finished the “Watchtower” episode. I’m assuming that Tigh, Pres. Asst, Kara’s husband, and Chief Mechanic are now revealed as 4 of the Final Five – and that Kara is the Fifth. Am I the only one who thinks this?? (Have read the “Kara’s an angel” suggestion, but I’m not seeing that yet…)
Also, since “Watchtower” is Real-time, Our-universe song. Is this a hint that the Colonists are coming home to Our Earth?? As a kid, I was a huge fan of the original BSG series, but I can’t remember if the setting was supposed to be before or after our own history…

Welcome aboard, Tsigane.

I don’t want to spoil it for ya. Keep watching. You might want to be careful, thar be a bunch of spoilers around here.

Since you’re at the point where I started writing these, you might want to check them out. Personal plug. I’m so shameless.

I won’t spoil the new series, but in the original they (unknowingly) picked up a transmission of one of the moonshots, so it was sometime after that. If you accept Galactica:1980 as cannon it was, obviously, 1980.

And welcome aboard, BTW.