New computer in Jan/Feb...Windows 7 or Mac?

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#21

In the office my designers all use Macs, and at home I have nothing but Win 7 PCs. I prefer Win 7 simply for the upgradability and expandability. When I had an old PC I wanted to turn into a TV computer, I popped out the components and threw them into a small case. Couldn’t do that with a Mac.

As for laptops, with Macs being Intel-based, I haven’t seen much of a reason to pay the premium. They are more durable and do have better battery life (though if you’re worried about performance, then you’re probably going to do things that will kill battery life quickly no matter what its capacity), but they’re just far too expensive by comparison to a stock NewEgg ASUS or even a Dell/HP. Plus, a lot of the things that made Macs stand out before (such as better color-accurate screens and graphics motherboard processes) either don’t exist anymore or are only present on the high-end $2k and up laptops (in which case odds are your PC laptop will have an equally good screen). Basically, I look at Apple laptops the same way I do boutique PC vendors like Falcon Northwest.

On the software side, well, windows has a lot of great stuff bundled in these days. Their Live software is very usable, and good open source software is much better for the PC. Plus the software is feature-rich. Going back to the TV computer thing, for example. Throw a tuner into the PC and windows media center boots up with native DVR capability. No need for additional third party software. With Mac, anything hardware that doesn’t come with the PC requires additional software. Want a tuner? New software. Upgraded video card? New software. Etc.

There’s nothing wrong with a Mac, so long as you know you’re paying premium price for a premium product. It’s more than what’s necessary, for sure, but it is durable and well built.

#22

I have been giving this a lot of thought being a recent convert to Macs. After the refractory period was over I have found myself frustrated by certain aspects of it. I could do a line item analysis but I will put this plainly:

If money is tight, go with a PC. You will always get more bang for your buck. If you go with a desktop you will even be able to extend its life even further five years down the road by swapping out components.

As I type this on my year-old iMac the only thing I can upgrade is the memory. Everything else (video card, hard drive etc) are locked. Comparing the OS of the Mac and Windows is increasingly becoming irrelevant. For most non-pro applications you can get stuff free that rocks (Office, Photo management, etc).

Macs are great, don’t get me wrong. They are, however, a luxury good. So like I said at the beginning if money is tight put your money into a PC. You will get more machine for less money and the PC will last longer.

#23

The HD should be replaceable, although with some of them it’s a bit of a pain in the SorryBarb. Still, doable.

#24

A replacement hard drive prolly won’t give you the noticeable improvement a new video card or cpu may give though.

#25

What about Hackintoshs? Are they more upgradable?

#26

It’s commodity hardware, so yes. Of course, the tradeoff is that it’s more of a pain to configure. But then, if you’re doing a hackintsh, you’re prolly comfortable with that.

#27

I think the reason why I’m hesitant to become a part of the "Mac family’ is because the idea of giving money to Steve Jobs makes me angry somehow and I’m not sure how I feel about conforming to the Steve Jobs Empire. :smiley:

Oh, and a friend told me if I want to get a Mac, perhaps I should wait til next year for the 2011 macbooks, since it probably won’t be too far off. Which makes sense, I think. Especially since if I’m getting a macbook, I’ll have to wait til Christmas anyway, which might not be too far off from whenever they’d launch the 2011 models. Or does it? (Also, I’m not sure if my current laptop can last til then)

Solai, if you don’t mind me asking, what made you convert over to Macs?

btw, thanks for everyone bringing up good points on both ends. Much appreciated, and I’m definitely concerned with the same, well, concerns as well. At the same time, I can’t seem to find the right pc laptop either (unless it’s the more pricey models) - there are too many choices and brands and models to sift through. Ack! I can’t decide.

Oh, I have another question (sheesh! More questions? :D)

It’s kind of a general question. For those who own a macbook (pro), how many times did it warrant a repair? In a way, I’m leaning towards a Mac because I feel like they have better quality control so I’m not as likely to get a ‘lemon’ of a computer (which I feel with my current HP). But generally, do Macbooks fail often? My current laptop needed so many repairs (which were all fixed for free, but it was still frustrating to have to go through it each time. Now that I think back on the frustration and annoyance this laptop has brought me, it is very unlikely I’d get an HP ever again, even if I do stick with PCs) almost from the start, and it was a bummer. So, yeah, I’m looking for a durable computer in that sense as well as in the physical sense.

#28

Macs are (to coin a phrase) insanely great. I’ve been using them for twenty-odd years, and have yet to have one fail.

That said, they do fail occasionally (of course) but the customer support is fantastic. Peruse reddit.com/r/apple for a while and you’ll find a lot of tales about how above and beyond Apple goes for anything that’s under warranty.

You get a year of warranty from jump. At any time during that period you can purchase Apple Care and get a few more years. (If you get a laptop, I seriously recommend budgeting for it.) I’ve seen many users get an updated computer due to some problem or other.

#29

It is simple: I wanted to know what the fuss was about. I can’t render an opinion without firsthand experience, so I couldn’t say anything about Macs without actually working with one intimately. My opinion stands. Solid operating system. Many aspects ‘just make sense’. However I no longer believe in paying more for less computational power. You pay a premium for a brand, and look, there is something to that. The Mac sitting on my desk looks sweet. It is a beautiful machine.

I feel that I am in a position to say Macs are good, but not superior anymore. I don’t have a lot of experience with Windows 7 yet, but all reports indicate it has bridged the gap. What Mac now has is what it always had, unique programs that are only available on the mac. Garageband is basically it. iPhoto? The Apple Store guys will tell you it can’t handle over 1,000 pictures. I take 400 pictures in a weekend. Bah.

I grew up with PCs and the occasional Apple and Amiga. PC core until late. Bought my Mac, it has been good to me. Next time around I’ll pay half the cost for a PC that is twice as powerful.

#30

I’m admittedly bias. But if I were weighing the scales, what Solai said would sway me.

To be fair, PCs also have brands where you pay a premium for the name (like Thinkpad). I custom build my PCs though. Means no tech support for me though.

#31

I’m leaning more towards a Windows 7 desktop, easier to stick with what you know I guess right? that and I’ve finally looked at the price of Macs and holy crap…my range will be around 1200 to 1300 and thats like…base for the Macs and a damn good one for a Dell

and yes I agree on the RAM, every ‘fun run’ custom build I’ve made so far I always have been putting 12 gigs of RAM in

and Amber thanks for the suggestion but I use the same 24 inch 1920 x 1200 3ms response time computer monitor for both my 360 and PC :smiley:

#32

I haven’t shopped for a computer since the Gateway I bought back in 2000. I have built every computer since then, and would never consider doing anything else.

The only exception of course will be the day I finally breakdown and get a laptop. But that will probably be years from now…

#33

Definitely. Solai’s argument has swayed me right back into the middle after Pike brought me over to the Mac side - now I don’t know what the heck I’m going to do. :smiley:

Can one build a laptop? If so, that is definitely an option here, I probably should check that out - I forget how easy it is to find shops who builds computers here in HK. (I’d do it myself, but seriously, no, I can’t. :smiley: My extent of building is tinkering with my desktop and adding RAM and switching out old drives. As for laptops, the biggest thing I ever did was to open one up to retrieve the hard drive. That’s it. So building is way beyond me.)

And yes, I’d feel much more at ease with some kind of tech support I can bitch to when something is awry. It’s probably less effective when that someone is me. :smiley:

Solai, I think there’s definitely an element of curiosity in me thinking about switching over to a Mac, too. There’s also a little bit of maybe I’ll get a better computing experience with it, maybe it’ll solve all the things I hate about PC! :smiley: But, of course, you definitely bring up some great points in sticking with PCs too and that Macs have problems of their own too. And I’ve actually always liked Windows as an OS (save Vista, obviously. I haven’t tried Windows 7 yet, so I don’t know.)

Wow, not one failed ever on you! That’s really impressive! If you don’t mind me asking, since you have used Macs for so long, how long have your Macs last you until you buy a new one (not because of malfunctions but because it’s become too behind whatever current new models )?

Apple Care is a concern for me. Take my HP. It had a one year warranty, and I extended it to 3 years for about US$90. That was well worth it, given just one repair would have cost that much, and as said earlier, this computer was fixed a bagillion times with new parts. All for free. I have problems with HP laptops themselves, but I have no qualms with HP service. So I checked out the Apple store here to see the prices and stuff, and the additional Apple Care (which would equal 3 years of service total too) cost about US$360. Which compared with HP, seems outrageously expensive.

But then, on the other hand, I’ve only just noticed that it seems that PC laptops of various brands tend to be priced higher here than in the states at the big stores (whereas Apple is basically the same price everywhere), which might the reason why I’m having so much trouble finding a bargain for a PC.

#34

I believe I read an article on this topic 2 or so years ago. You can buy pieces and make your own laptop. But, if you’re not gonna piece it together yourself and pay someone else to do it, you may as well buy a name brand instead. You’ll get better support if/when something goes wrong and the labor cost you’ll incur having it built may cancel out any savings you’d get had you built it yourself. Plus you’ll get more (needless) software with a name brand laptop.

I dunno for sure though. My data is 2-4 years out of date. But, the arguments are similar to building your own PC vs. buying a name brand.

Personally, I prefer building my own PCs, but buying name brand laptops. I can (more) easily swap out damaged or defective PC parts. But, not so much on a laptop.

Things might be easier for laptop building now for all I know.

#35

Not easily, since there is just too much variation on the case designs.

Wow, not one failed ever on you! That’s really impressive! If you don’t mind me asking, since you have used Macs for so long, how long have your Macs last you until you buy a new one (not because of malfunctions but because it’s become too behind whatever current new models )?

I’ve been pretty lucky. The GF had the hinge connection go on her aged iBook last year, but that’s her first failure and she’s been on them longer than I have (She started on the second model of Mac introduced. I started on the next one.) Naturally, YMMV.

I go around four years on a single Mac, give or take. I tend to buy refurbs lately, so they’re often a generation behind the state of the art when I get them. I’ve also been laptop-exclusive for around five years now.

#36

So, no, I haven’t bought a new laptop yet, but after much thought, I think Solai’s argument have won me over back to the PC side. Pike’s argument definitely got me thinking about a Mac, but after looking in the shops at Macs and PCs, and comparing prices and specs, it seems that I’m once again back on the PC trails before I’ve even stepped on the Mac trail. (Also, the trackpad! I know it’s a magical Mac trackpad, and I’ll get better at using it with time, but having tried it, I’m so not used to using it at all. :D)

Thanks everyone for helping me out! Seriously, you guys have been so helpful, and you all totally rock.

Hee, mind if I ask another question? (Good grief? :D)

After checking out a slew of laptops and models, I’ve more or less narrowed down the choices to two - a Samsung laptop or a Fujitsu Lifebook. I have no experiences with either brands, and both are about $1100 so not sure which one to get. (as it turns out, the reason why the prices are sometimes higher in HK than the US for the same model is that even with the same exact model number of the same brand, the specs are different somehow. Which is just weird.) Some of the more important specs that are different between the two laptops:

Samsung RF 510-S01:
15.6" LED HD
Intel Core i5 560M 2.66 GHz
4 GB DDR3 RAM
Nvidia GeForce GT 330M/ discrete 1GB GDDR3
500 GB Hard Drive 7200rpm
2.6kg

Fujitsu Lifebook SH530:
13.3" “superfine HD back-light LED”
Intel Core i5 - 460M 2.53 GHz
6 GB DDR3 RAM
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5430 512MB
500GB Hard drive 5400 rpm
1.9 kg

My possibly erroneous reasons on picking the Samsung:

  1. On paper, Samsung has better specs. And it seems like it runs certain games faster than the lifebook (I’m worried about the graphics card on the lifebook).
  2. And therefore, Samsung is a better bargain, since they’re almost the same price, and in addtion to the better specs, the Samsung has a bigger monitor (but not overly so).
  3. I like the keyboard better on the Samsung - it has better placement.
  4. It has these two extras: Bluetooth 3.0 and one additional USB 3.0 - though I don’t use either on a regular basis (or for the USB 3.0, not at all), so not sure if it’s something I care about.
  5. While the hard drive should run faster, which is great, I think it makes the laptop vibrate a bit more than usual, which is odd and possibly not too good.
  6. There’s a smaller model with pretty much the same specs, except it’s a 14" monitor, has a Intel Core i5 460 2.53 GHz, and is about 100 bucks cheaper. So, if the 15.6" ends up being too big, there’s another option.

My possibly erroneous reasons on picking the Lifebook:

  1. Fujitsu seems to have a better waranty service for the same price (both about $90 for 3 years). It covers everything, including accidents, and has home repair (not over the phone, like an actual guy coming over to your house to fix it if you’re too lazy to go to the service center). Samsung just has a regular 3 year full coverage, but no home repair and no accident coverage.
  2. According to the guy at the store, Fujitsu has a better heat system (something about having a tray of some sort so if there’s small spillage (or dust in general), those fall into that tray between the motherboard and the keyboard. So it doesn’t heat up as fast as the Samsung. I don’t really know if that means anything at all - both laptops were pretty cool in temperature at the store (where they have it on for presumably most of the day. Both definitely were much cooler than a nearby HP laptop).
  3. While the Samsung has better specs overall, Fujitsu does have that extra 2Gb RAM, even though it has what I think is a suckier graphics card.
  4. Fujitsu is definitely the sturdier laptop.
  5. I haven’t used either brands for computers, but my impression is that Fujitsu is a more renowned brand in laptops than Samsung is.

So…kind of a Japan vs. S.Korea showdown. Who will win?

#37

i thought you said you wanted a computer mainly for web browsing? in that case, why buy a 2.6g laptop?

for laptops, i have to say, battery life is everything. you may think you will always have it plugged in. but when you don’t and you still need to use your laptop, usually is for something important, and that’s when it counts.

don’t get super powerful gaming laptop with awesome GPU graphic cards that only lasts 3 hours.

also, heat is extremely important on laptops. a laptops that has poor heat sinks will become really slow. when the internal temerature reaches 60 degrees, often times the network and IO devices are the first to fail, rendering the computer useless.

#38

Oh no, that wasn’t me. This will be my primary and only computer, so I’ll be using it for basically everything from photoshop to writing to games to videos etc, etc.

Battery life is something, but given 3 hours is a lot better than my last laptop, and that I will be using it primarily plugged in, it should be all right. (plus, given the weight of either computers, bringing the cord along with me will be quite do-able. Again, my last laptop weighs like 9 pounds, so this will be a breeze for me. Yes, my last laptop wasn’t great. :D)

Heat is definitely an issue for me. That’s why I’m torn between the two computers. If Fujitsu does indeed have a vastly superior heat system (the question is, I don’t know how much better it is. Both display laptops were pretty similar, heatwise. Both maintained a nice and cool temperature while I fudged around with them, whereas a lot of other nearby laptops - HP, Dell, Acer, and a few other brands - were warm), then it’s definitely a big pro in favor of it. I’d pick that just on that criteria alone.

The problem is I have no experience in either brand, so I don’t know how nicely built either of them are. It seems the Lifebook is sturdier, but the Samsung definitely has better specs. And I’m definitely a little worried about the graphics card on the Lifebook.

#39

For brand, I have to suggest Fujitsu. Fujitsu is much more established in the laptop market than Samsung.

#40

You gave screen sizes, but not resolutions? That should be a factor as well if this will be a primary PC.