I too want to commend those more closely involved than I for how well the GWC200 book/slide show turned out. It’s really fantastic…
While I don’t disagree that Denethor is a douche, in his defense he was being manipulated by Sauron via a second palantir…
I’m glad you said that. In the films, you get that Saruman was influenced by the palantir but it’s not as explicit with Denethor. You just think he’s a douche. They both turn into puppets for Sauron. Sauron is the Lord of the Rings and the villian throughout. His influence and corruption gets really focused on the Ring, but really he’s running the show. The Elves (and Gandalf of course) are the only thing keeping Middle Earth from going straight to Doom.
Denethor’s “doucheness” comes from the way he treats his sons. In the context of the films, I think what Denethor’s actions during the Siege of Gondor represent is the result of despair. One of the huge themes of both the book and the film is keeping hope even in the face of a seemingly hopeless cause. It’s this that keeps the main characters going when despair looms. Other characters, most notably Denethor, but also Saruman, represent the other extreme. When faced with a hopeless situation, they yield to despair and it leads to them doing the wrong things, and ultimately to their demise. In the books, Sauron feeds their despair through the Palantiri, whereas in the films it’s portrayed more as a character flaw.
I also wanted to comment on what was mentioned on the podcast about Sam not being a ring-bearer. He actually was a ring-bearer. Remember that while Frodo was incapacitated by Shelob, Sam took the ring. The reason that he was able to give it up again was the fact that his love and loyalty to Frodo overcame his desire for power… also aided by the fact he didn’t have it for very long. This is in contrast to the opening scene where Smeagol and Deagol fight to the death for the ring. The reason that scene was included in this film was to show us how things could have gone for Sam and Frodo if not for the strength of their character and their relationship.
Lastly, I wanted to point out that Eowyn was also affected by her stabbing the Witch King. After she runs her blade through his head, you can see her grasp her arm in pain. This is also why she’s in a coma afterwards, also. So I don’t think that Merry grasping his arm after stabbing him is an indicator that the “No man” curse applies to him.
Chuck, I really like what you said about every major character contributing something important to the cause. I hadn’t really thought about that, and you’re right, it’s really very cool and unusual for a film.
Anyway, great cast!
I would ditto that as well. I love the inclusions of things like alpacas, IYKWIM, Adama and Roslin having some fun, Wolf brand Chili, etc… on top of all the meetup pics and everything else. Definitely a fun read.
If you’d like to order a book for yourself, here’s the link to the blurb site!
You can preview it partially, there, or just check out the slideshow Steviespin put out! It is the book!
Had a great time on the livecast!
Hugs and Squishes to ALL!!!
Really fun podcast guys, as usual. I’m not an expert in Lord of the Rings, but I think the Tolkien professor did a great job of explaining his complex ideas without getting casual viewers/readers lost.
GWC200! Holy craaaaaaaap that is amazing!
Looking foward to the classic science fiction arc, I think its a great idea. Do we have a movie list yet?
EDIT: Btw, any classic Sci-Fi movie arc must include Forbidden Planet!
While I do enjoy the podcast most times, I am very happy that the Lord of the Rings arc is over. While I am no Tolkien expert, I have read every book the man(and his son) have put out. While in my twenties I did use the books as research material for several RPGs and just because I found enjoyment in them. Many of the statements in the arc where said without knowledge of the books. Audra says she has never read the books and Chuck said it was long ago when he did. This made me less upset since it was the films they were making comments about and not the books or the characters from the books, but the characters from the films, which are light years apart from their book counterparts.
I do enjoy the podcast and though I was tempted to delete it from my iTunes, I have decided to keep it.
The arc for The Lord of the Rings was about the movies, not the books. They watched each movie and then podcast about it. If you look in the Community Frak Parties Thread you’ll see that there was a group watch of each movie in preparation for the 'casts.
I’ve read most of the Tolkien books too (prolly not as often as you) and have tried to keep them separate in my mind. It’s hard to do, but I do appreciate the beauty of both formats.
Glad you decided to stick around!
Another wonderful podcast. Gods damn, I could go on talking about Tolkein and Lord of the Rings for 6 more weeks. The Tolkein professor interviews were awesome. I plan to start listening to his podcast.
I do think it’s different experience watching the LotR’s movies for those not familiar with the books versus those (like me) that are intimately familiar with the Lord of the Rings books, The Silmarillion (and I spoke on the last podcast cast thread about the cool SPI War of the Rings game that I have and adore).
I think Peter Jaskson and his team did a superb job of staying so true to the books, but not so true that it would make a poor movie. On the Directors/Writers audiocommentary on the DVDs, Peter Jaskson and his two writers explain in detail each significant change and why it was need in terms of movie pacing etc. Also, the actors added another dimension that, while not always true the books, wasn’t (too me) to much of a stretch.
These movies are so good that they can of course be thoroughly enjoyed by folks not familar with the books. But knowing the books adds a whole level of appreciation. The X-Men movies arc comes to mind. I really enjoy the X-Men movies, but I’m sure it’s a different experience for me compared to those who have read the X-Men comics (or books?).
Maybe the movies didn’t show this well, but Elrond is an extremely significant person in Middle Earth. It’s amusing to me that some see him as kinda crap-bag, because that makes me think to myself “Yeah, calling Elrond a crapbag is like calling FDR, Abraham Lincoln or Winston Churchill crapbags. Flaws they may have, but they’re pivitol people in history.”
Something occured to me regarding Arwen during my rewatch of the movies. Arwen has the ability to choose whether she’s human or elvish. It hadn’t occured to me before, but that’s actually valid and in keeping with the books (Simarillion). To explain why you need to know Elrond’s lineage.
Elrond’s lineage also reveals that he’s not a lot indifferent to the history of Mankind, in fact he’s part of it.
A man named Earendil did something critical involving bringing the light of the last Silmaril back to Valinor and at the same time pleading for the rescue of Middle Earth which was in bad bad shape at the hands of Morgoth (Sauron’s boss).
Earendil married Elwing and Elwing was the daughter of Dior who was the daughter of Beren (human) and Luthien (daughter of an Elf father (King Thingol of Doriath) and Maiar mother(Melian).)
(if any of the above are wrong I’ll go back and change later).
Earendil and Elwing gave birth to two sons (twins) Elrong and Elros.
And Elrond and Elros were given a special power of choice --they were allowed to choose whether to exist at Elf or Human. Elrond chose to be an Elf and is therefor immortal. Elros chose to be Human, and he became the 1st King of Nummenor (Nummenor is basically Atlantis). Now, the male line of Elros goes all the way down through the Tar-Palantir of Numemor and his line in turn is the line Kings of of Gondor and Arnor in Middle Earth.
So in this way, believe it or not, Elrond and Aragorn are actually related!!!
Note above that (because of Melian) both Elrond and Arwen have some bit of Maiar in them (Gandalf, Saruman and Sauron are all Maiar), so that’s a pretty damn powerful lineage.
There’s a scene in the books were Denethor uses the Palantir in his high tower in Minas Tirith. And Sauron totally destroys Denethor’s will through the palantir and show’s him the black ships coming to seal the doom of Minas Tirith). The movies chose to leave that out. And even when Aragorn borrows the Palantir to challenge Sauron the movie leads you to beleive it’s the palantir that Gandalf took froim Saruman and not Denethor’s palantir. All that said, it’s clear in tbe books that Denethor is a jerk anyway (palantir or not), so I’m fine with how the movie portrayed him.
Yup. I agree. In the book it’s clear that Eowyn not being a man and Merry not being a man (but rather a Hobbit) is why together they can defeat the Lord of the Nazgul.
wow, Thot. just…wow. thanks for adding your encyclopedic knowledge to the discussion 
In the LotR universe,
Who I want to be? Gandalf or any Maiar, kick-arse power and magic!
Who I would actually be? One of the blokes at the bar of The Prancing Pony.
Who I want to be? Eowyn
Who I would actually be? Some chick working in the Rohan stables and pining for Eomer
I finally mostly caught up on the casts.
But their is a third perk to being $am. You get the copyrights to the HOBBIT AND THE LORD OF THE RINGS !
I’d go on a two year walk just to never have to work again.
Yeah. sigh To hell with the “promoting progress” bit. Let’s make it a derivative that can be traded!
Ya know, after listening to the Tolkien Professor talk about people in academia who hate Lord of the Rings and Fantasy in general, well, it sounds a lot like Chuck talking about people on the internet who hate something even though they haven’t read or seen it.
I guess there are haters everywhere.
Sigh.
Lots of that going on re: Avatar right now. Many haters out there who haven’t seen it yet are convinced they know all that’s wrong with it.
Thanks for your explanations! I have to agree with this point in particular because making LoTR books into movie form was an Olympian feat each time, and I think Peter Jackson (and team) might have been truly the best director for the job (Imagine for one second that George Lucas made them instead…EGADS! No offense to Lucas).
Who I want to be? Figwit’s close elfin companion!
Who I would really be? Since I’m quite short, I guess a hobbit just hanging out in the shire then.
Re:Avatar. I watched it, and loved every minute of it while watching it. But after what was probably one of the most satisfying movie experience in a long while, I do feel that the movie, while visually impeccable and stunning and worth every penny to watch, lacked impact and/or emotional resonance. I don’t know. The story and most characters were great while I watched it, but that feeling dissipates and I cease to care about any of them after I left the theatre. So, I’m definitely blown away by Avatar, but not by its story. But I don’t feel like I’m a hater! I just appreciate the visuals more than the story in this movie. But I can see why people love it.
And that’s cool, COCO, because you actually saw it. I’m not selling that ol’ time Avatar Religion, it’s just that the people that get stuck in my craw are the ones who make proclamations about how terrible it is without having seen it.
As much as I’d like to be Aragorn…
…I’ll probably be on the stool next to you at The Prancing Pony
…SO DRINK WE ALL!!!
Sy Snoodle knows two songs doesn’t she? Pre special edition and post special edition. d:
She might have a bellow or siren power. Skinny legs, arms, and mouth, but an oversized body with lungs that can compress airs. d: (I guess they established her powers in the next podcast.)
LMsbO at Sean. Hey, I posted that Mass Effect 2 news as soon as I heard about it. And, I specifically told people they can stop playing classes they don’t like and focus on plot choices instead. Poor Sean though.