GWC Podcast #197

Ah, very interesting. I happen to be re-listening to the audiobook of The Silmarillion today and I’m at the part where the talk about the origin of orcs.

So the World of Tolkein sort of a blend of polytheistic and monotheistic.
There’s Iluvatar that’s the One God overall and that Valar which are kind analogous to the ancient greek or Roman gods of our world.

So the Valar lived to the far west in Valinor. And the Elves (also called the 1st children of Iluvatar) were first created and put on “Earth” (Arda) to the far East by lake Quivi’ennen’ (sp?).

The Elves made their way west, and essentiallly the nobler elf you were the further west you kept going. And the noblest Elves made it to Valinor itself.
Now, in these days there’s was no Sun and no Moon yet. Just stars. So it was a Twilight world.

In those early days when the Elves were mostly in the far East, some Elves were captured by Melkor (Melkor is kinda like Satan or whatever) and enslaved in his dungeons in Ultumno and Angband. Those Elves were corrupted and disfigured and bred (and bred and bred and bred) and become the race of Orcs.

A couple other interesting things I’m reminded of as I re “read” Silmarillion.
The Valar called Aule created the Dwarves BEFORE the Elves were created. And Illuvator was kinda pissed that Aule did that. Aule said “Sorry, I guess I’ll destroy what I made?” Illuvator said, “Nah, no worries. Just but those seven original Dwarves asleep and buried until I create the Elves, then I’m good with you bringing your Dwarves alive, okay?” (I’m paraphrasing of course).
And llluvatar also said, “Umm., now because of all this I’m afraid they the Dwarves and Elves are always gonna not get along.”

Around the same time, Yvanna (another Valar) created the Ents. But I think she was smart enough to wait until the Elves were created, so as not to piss off Illuvatar.

Got all that?:slight_smile:

I shall prove my geek cred by telling you guys that as a young’un (13ish) I sat down with LotR and learned how to write with that script. It’s not terribly hard but it is hard to make it look good :slight_smile: I went through a couple months where I would write anything private in tengwar. It was pretty awesome.

Awesome. I used to scibble in Elvish script as well (see my post above about the Tollkein Dictionary).
In 10th grade I remember having an unrequited crush on a girl named Sarah. And I would doodle “I love you, Sarah” in the Quenya language using elvish scripted. Ah, youth. :stuck_out_tongue:

Here’s a great chart for anyone looking to write in tengwar but doesn’t want to learn Quenya.

It’s important to remember that the vowels are diacritics, not standalone characters.

Interestingly, if you look closely in The Return of the King, Sauron sends out a dark cloud to blot the sun for his army. Since most of his forces were in Mordor the whole sunlight restriction didn’t matter. Also, Sauron had quite a few races of men on his side as well.

:eek:

As a non-linguist, I think that means they’re marks made on other characters to show that a vowel sound goes here?

Also, did anyone catch when Audra asked the Professor about the Elven language having very little sibilance? I wondered what, if any, significance there is in that fact. It sounds like a very linguist thing of JRR to do: “I hate the sound of 's’es, so I will weed them out of my created language.”

Got all that?

Indeed I did. Thanks for the Middle Earth history lesson, Professor. :slight_smile: Interesting that an author would put that much thought into what’s essentially backstory.

yessss, and he gave them to Gollum, preciousssss.

Um, next interview guest…ThotFullGuy!

No joke. Best précis summary I’ve seen yet.

I think I need to paraphrase myself. I’ve read the Sillmarillion too (and I’m trying to get down to reading The Children of Hurin).

Anyways, I’m trying to figure out the backstory of the Orcs and Goblins. We all know that the Goblins were once corrupted Elves; but where do the Orcs come from?

Also, Tolkien Professor conjectures that the true eeeevil (BIG E) of Saruman’s Uruk-hai creation was that human women were captured to breed with the Uruks to create the Uruk-hai.

You make-a me blush :stuck_out_tongue:

My understanding is that Goblins and Orcs are the same thing. Goblin is just another word for Orc. Orcs/Goblins are corrupted Elves from the line of Elves kidnapped…uh…elf-napped my Melkor in the very early days of the Elves (when they appeared in the far east near Lake Quivinennen).

I’m not sure about the origin of the Uruk-hai—aside from what was depicted in the movies.

I don’t think that Tolkien went into much detail about the creation of the Uruk-hai. I seem to recall reading somewhere that they were essentially an orc/human hybrid, so from the humans they got some increased strength and size, and a greater tolerance for sunlight than your standard Mk 1 Mod 0 orc.

The Uruk-hai were re-imagined from Saruman’s conception. :stuck_out_tongue:

Say, what would happen if Saruman had bred Orcs with Hobbits… ? :eek:

I suspect they would eat a lot.

I still remember the four-word review of “Return of the King”:

Hobbits crying.
People dying.

:slight_smile:

Does anyone know the name of the Tolkien expert interviewed and/or the website he refers to? I’d like to take a look. Thanks!

The Tolkien Professor. :cool:

'obbits, mate?

Horcbits? Aacck!

Orbbits? How about another go around?

Horks? na-noo-na-noo!

I’ve got a silmarillion of them!

21:24
Whoa! I got a shout out…but the action was done by someone else. Gah! ^^ I quoted and agreed with someone else who said he/she couldn’t tell. d: (Dang it, I’ll get a real shout out one day.)
http://forum.galacticwatercooler.com/showpost.php?p=244586&postcount=131 Darth_Revan_Rules deserves credit for the joke.

So, you get Miracle Laurie. Her character didn’t die (yet), but got captured by Bennet. Does that mean the curse (actor has their character killed after a GWC interview) is broken? d:

Wow. Miracle as Kaylee…

If Frodo shows up in your village, you’re like, “There goes the neighboorhood, the village, the keep, and the frakking forest.”

Dalrog? From what again?

The detail about Tolkien not using new words causes the whole story to make so much more sense to me. Scenes and monologues are clicking in my mind now. And, will prolly continue to do so now.

LMsbO. That’s great.

Yeah, Jackson mentioned on that in the commentary of RotK. The ring generates a lot of angst I guess. And, Frodo had enough angst at the end to pilot an Evangelion. ^^

Lol. Kinda wish the video was shorter at least. d: