GWC Podcast #176: Eve Online & Honorverse

FWIW, there’s nothing in the world stopping you from soloing Eve. There’s a lot you can do on your own, and even more you can do once you’ve built up some basics. Sure, it goes faster if you can ask some questions, but even though there’s not a “manual” (per se) there’s Google.

I have a slightly different take on Eve than Solai – though his take makes every bit as much sense, I think. I agree completely with his assesment of Eve as incredibly complicated, multi-layered, and insanely sophisticated. it takes some effort to even learn to move your ship around, and that’s not the tough part. But I disagree that it’s soul-sucking. Here’s why:

There are about a million ways you can do something in Eve. You can take PvE-ish missions from agents and go shoot things. You can go shoot 'rats. You can salvage wrecks. You can mine. You can manufacture. You can invent. You can research. Hell, the list just goes on and on and on.

The upshot of this is that you can switch around among these potions depending on what time you have available and when. For example, I’ll often hook up with a small group of friends to go shoot NPC belt 'rats or join other friends for a L3 mission – either as a fellow mission runner or just a salvager. These are (as far as I can tell) similar to the “raid” concept discussed in other MMOs. We play together, often on Vent as well, having a good time.

But maybe I don’t have time for that one week. I can still jump on from time to time and swap out a skill in training, or start a manufacturing job, or set up trades to sell mined minerals. Or I can research something via Google that catches my interest, like T2 invention. You get the idea: I can switch around to whatever task fits my current available time and sociability.

That’s the gist. With Eve you’re not locked into the “raid every Wed or you’re out” situation. You can continue to play and grow no matter what kind of time you have to invest. And you can keep in touch with your Eve friends regardless, still having a good 'ole time figuring out how to, say, manufacture those T2 guns you love so much for cheap. :slight_smile:

Totally agree, re: social. While it’s normal in Eve to spend soem time taking care of your own character’s growth requirements, everything’s more fun in groups. Meeting people in-game is probably half the fun.

re: PvP, I definitely don’t think you need PvP for MMOs to be fun. But Eve’s all-PvP world is different – in a good way, I think. A lot of the Eve negativity you’ll find online comes from the fact that there’s no real “safe” zone where PvP is impossible. OTOH, if you’re new to Eve, don’t assume that this means you’ll get your ass shot off the first time you undock!

Eve applies a “security rating” to every system, ranging from 0.0 (least secure) to 1.0 (most secure). In “high-security” systems (those rated 0.5 and higher) you’re offered some protection by Concord (think space police) and gate/station guns. If you agress another character (or good NPC) in these areas, these NPC forces (Concord/gate guns/station guns) will attack you to great effect. In short, they’ll blow you away. Quickly. So in these areas you’ll see very little non-consentual PvP.

On the other hand, it’s not unthinkable that a player might, say, decide that whatever’s in a high-sec hauler might be worth losing a ship for – hence the “high-sec suicide gank.” Bringing a ship that’ll do a lot of DPS (damage per second, for non-MMO players), they’ll seek to blow away the hauler before they get blown away by Concord. Then a friend picks up the stuff from the hauler’s wreck and they meet up elsewhere.

But if you’re roaming around in your little n00bship or cheap T1 frigate/destroyer/whatever, you’re not really worth it. Just remember: there’s safety in being not worth it.

In low-sec (0.1-0.4) you’ll find lots of piracy: other players that’ll descend on you guns a-blazin’ then either blow you away for your loot or attempt to ransom your ship (and/or pod). While gate/station guns will still attempt to protect you in low-sec, Concord does not. Believe it or not, this isn’t really as bad as it sounds. When I first started in Eve, I was scared to death to venture outside 0.8 or higher space. Now I regularly traverse low-sec and have a good time there. Just follow the first rule of Eve: don’t undock anything you can’t afford to lose. :slight_smile:

The funny part is that I’ve probably met more friendly people in low-sec then high-sec. By friendly, of course, I mean in convo – not in-system. I’ve made friends with pirates that’ve blown me away. They’ll do it again, too, if they get the chance. But we still keep in touch.

Anyway, the bottom line re: Eve’s all-PvP universe is this: while there’s no truly “safe” place in Eve, safety abounds. You just have to create it yourself by thinking about what you’re doing and how it’ll impact others in the game. Want to fly across a good chunk of Empire (even low-sec) “safely?” Hop in a shuttle and make sure you don’t have any implants. Want to mine for years without a single incident? Use cheap mining ships and don’t jet-can mine. You get the idea.

Thank you! I love hearing that GWC inspires someone to check out new things. That’s what I love about GWC – the way everyoe here turns me on to so much new and great material. And if you do jump in, be sure to say “Hi.”

Hope you’re having fun. If anyone trying Eve for the first time gets confused or lost – if it hasn’t happened to you yet, just wait – drop all the GWCers in Eve a line in the Eve thread and we’ll all pitch in to try and figure out your issue. Just remember to help us figure out our next one!

I can confirm soloing in EVE is perfectly possible. I’ve been playing for just over sixteen months, and while I am in a corp due its casual nature most of the time I am effectively playing solo. The nature of EVE is so open-ended there are plenty of avenues open to solo or mostly-solo players.

Indeed, one of the most iconic of EVE players, Chribba, pretty much plays the game entirely as a solo miner.

Of course, solo doesn’t mean antisocial.

I missed this one. I completely agree! I played Everquest & World of Warcraft a LOT longer than I would have if I didn’t have the friends playing it I did. I have gotten kind of spoiled really. I have a really hard time playing solo games now. I have no one to talk to & socialize with! The guild I was in with Everquest moved almost completely wholesale over to WoW once it was up & running. They are still one of the top guilds on teh server they play on. I have friendships approaching almost 10 years now from that experience. I wouldn’t trade any of them for the world.

It’s truly magical sometimes to log in & team up with a group of people from places as diverse as Singapore, Australia, Northern Ireland, Dmonican Republic, Boston, San Diego, Madison (WI), Florida, Texas, Canada. The borders disappear, the cultural differences just make the jokes more fun when you’re explaining them. All we are is a bunch of mongo gamers nerds wanting whatever is the goal to DIE! One of my favorite memories from EQ was one night when a few of the Singapore guys were talking & just slipped into their local slang. It’s completely different than ours yet so familiar to see. Honestly, I’m not explaining the feeling very well, but I just thought it was cool to witness. The fact that they felt comfortable enough to do that in front of me was an honor I shall cherish for a long time.

this’ll be quick as I’m in an airport on the iPhone, but I’ll come back and post a followup here:

what I was attempting to say on the cast (which I fudged as I’m a horrible speaker) was EVE’s virtual lack of an “endgame” compared to WoW. There’s always something your character can work towards, and though some of the processes are repetitive (as with all MMO’s) it doesn’t feel as much so in EVE as it does in WoW. Note that I’m likely biased as I’m playing Eve with some kick<sorrybarb> people and I don’t have all that much time/SP invested in my character, but in EVE I will fight back when the five-year veteran attacks my tech1 ship with tech2 gear. Compare this to when a level 80 attacked one of my ~40 characters in WoW, I’d just try to run. I guess I’m trying to say EVE is different because the outcome of an unfair fight isn’t necessarily certain.

This screen is small so I have no idea if that was coherent, but my battery is dying so I’ll be back to edit/add when I get home. :slight_smile:

EDIT: Back home now, corrected some formatting above but surprisingly I think I got my point across.

PS. I’m not ripping on WoW, I enjoyed that game for a LONG time. I’m just saying EVE is structured VERY differently, and for me, I’m getting more out of it than I did WoW.

Given Chuck & Seans talk of the game made me want to try it. THis makes me even more convinced to give it a solid chance. I’m just not in the right frame of mind right now to do that. So I will come back at it in a couple weeks.

Yeah, it’s definitely a game where you have to give it its proper time (I figure 2hrs a go, at least at the start.) I do appreciate that the grinding happens during offline time.

User feedback: I’m not a gamer, haven’t seen either Clear Skies, never read Honor Harrington… but I’m quite enjoying the week’s 'cast. Gonna check out Clear Skies when I get a minute. Ditto the Honor books.

Cheers

I have been playing eve for three years now. I love the game. I think one of the coolest things is that everyone is on one server. Almost anytime you log in there will be around 40,000 people flying their little spaceships in eve. I have spent many hours flying solo, doing the NPC missions, mining, inventing, building ships to sell… The economic system in eve is very nice. I spend most of my time in 0.0 space (where anything goes) and fly in huge fleet space battles. There have been times when there would be 350 to 400 people involved in these PvP fights.

My only experience with Honor Harrington was in a short story written by David Drake for an anthology series in the Honorverse, and I enjoyed it very much. I relish military SF (ex military myself) and love Drakes novels and short stories, they have such a genuine feel to them and are very fleshed out. If you like the Honorverse you will probably enjoy Drake’s RCN series, this series was inspired by his working with Weber to write the aforementioned short story. He also worked with Bill Fawcett to write the ‘Fleet’ and ‘Battlestation’ series.

I generally avoid MMO’s because I hate running into spoiled adolescents with silly names hovering over their heads talking with their friends about things going on in the ‘real world’. It just ruins the experience for me…

I tried ‘Guild Wars’ because it had no subscription fee and promised that you could play ‘solo’. Which was partly right, you could play solo… for awhile. The AI characters you can recruit in town to join you on your quest max out at level 5. Which meant that your team would get ground into powder once you got into the latter quests. Leaving me to deal with bands of battle orcs to fight ‘solo’ after they died. That got old quick.

I haven’t played another since.

groan I just had flashbacks… Remembering how disgusted I was whenever I entered a town and I saw all those player characters lounging around in huge groups goofing of and dancing. And selling ‘in-game’ gold. Ruining the experiance…

More more more. This was the best by far non bsg show yet. I am a new Eve player and would love a weekly show about the game… Ok how about a monthly one then.

Sionn
Aka Carl

Goofing off and dancing can be fun. There’s some incredible Guild Wars machinima out there of it. I’ve uploaded a good-quality copy of one of the best ones, called “The Kryta Bomber”, here: http://mothership.beyondunreal.com/qapete/krytabomber.wmv

Selling in-game gold is a problem for every MMORPG I’ve ever known.

AI characters in Guild Wars do not max out at Level 5. As you get further in the game, their starting level goes up as well, up to the max of 20. Plus, if you purchase “Nightfall”, you have the opportunity to get “Heroes” to join your party, who are basically AI characters that you can equip as you see fit with weapons and skills, and control better than the bots via flagging.

You can do virtually the entire PvE game with just bots. Actually, you can do virtually all three of the Pve games with just bots. Like people are saying about Eve, though, it’s more fun with a group (or Guild).

I actully played for about 2 years, and had to quit about 3 months ago due to compy death. but this will soon be rectifyed.

i spent prolly the first year solo. then i started my own corp for giggels in a system i wont mention here. and what happened was many of the solo miners i knew from talking started to join and we evolved into a very casual corp. we would all get together and mine for corp like once a week. was amazing to see 6 strips and an orca out eating a system. eventually we started makeing ship parts ect. and even ships up to battleships. we even eventually started gaining shippers and escorts. the corp got a life of its own. and still as being the leader of it and being gone i check in now and then with skype with the guys and every thing is going fine. we really compatmentalised things. thats what i love about eve i have not played for a good time and the honestly socialistic group of miners and industrialist i lead are still chugging along.

but for noobs i have one comment pick something anything from small time miner to space hooker and go with it. the way chars are now they are fairly flexible and you can allways train into something else or start a new char (you get 3) if you find something you like more. me i started mineing, moved to strip mineing then moved into corperate CEO. tho i all participated in frigate races in one of the mineor race leages. went on solo missions. we went ratting. and even once the corp fought a war and won against another industrial group. simply put do what you want then branch out. their is allways another option or oportunity there. and yeha even if you solo. TALK TO PEOPLE make connections. its like real life the people you know matter. i mean at one point i spent 2 months hauling things in a car from high sec to low sec for another corp to help them build WTF ever they were building. they never told me. the money for tha job was crazy. each run would buy 6 of the cans i was carting things in.

so basicly my point is this really really dont over specialise. be ready to try anything out. (and yeah i still hate pirates) but thats due to some really bad experiances with some pirate DB’s.

I find very few people in eve under the age of 20. There are a lot of military people that play the game. It seems to have a lot of brainiacs.

…this podcast made me want to hop on my husband’s defunct EVE account and try it for myself. So that’s a good job on y’all, because after months of discussion with him we’d concluded that it’s not my type of game at all.

I still haven’t gotten a chance to check out Clear Skies 1 and 2, but I have to declare my love for well done machinima. Also done in the Half-Life 2 engine is Civil Protection, most of which are utterly hilarious. (The same guys also do Freeman’s Mind, which I haven’t seen but have heard good things about.) And there’s always Red vs Blue!

Enjoyed listening to the EVE podcast. I’ve never tried MMO games until I joined facebook, and started playing Mafia Wars. I know, the difference with MW & EVE is vast. However, what really interests me is how these games self-organize into corps, clans, etc. In MW, there are clans that protect each other, while other clans do nothing but fight & rob. I assume EVE has the same social aspects operating in it’s world.

Again, thanks for the most timely 'cast!

My god, I thought I was the only one who’d read any of the books in the Honorverse. Well, not the only one obviously since Weber is consistently on the NYT best seller list, but kudos for even discussing probably one of my favorite mil sci fi book series.

Hi all – long time podcast listener, first time forum visitor.

I am a real fan of the Honorverse and I really enjoyed the discussion. I am somewhat amazed that no mention was made of Horatio Hornblower though. When he set out to write On Basilisk Station, Weber basically created a universe that was Horatio Hornblower in space. H.H. - get it? Not only do we follow both Honor and Horatio through full careers where they rise through the ranks, but Weber also modeled the politics and physics/space combat on the British and French forces and ships of the line in the Napoleonic Age of Sail.

If you like Honor, I really recommend the Hornblower novels by C.S. Forester.

So there I was grooving on Honor and BSG and you mention EVE. I’d seen the ads for years but never went for it having never really gotten into MMO’s. Well I am into my second day of the trial and really like it. Please look me up there under the same name and I’ll also join in on the dedicated EVE thread. I would love to fly with some of you.

Keep up the fantastic podcast all. I really enjoy it.

Chad

Welcome aboard, towlebooth!

If you like HH (either one) you should take a look at the Patrick O’Brian books. It’s very much in the Horatio vein, but has a heavy nineteenth-century-geek vibe going on.

I’ve read the first (and seen the film Master and Commander of course) and loved them both. Not enough time, but the rest are on the list.

I also like the Richard Sharpe novels by Bernard Cornwell when I feel the need for gritty infantry stuff.

Wow, I envy you. I’ve been putting off the last one for years now, simply because I don’t want to get to the end.