Wow, need to start a thread NOW! Let the theorizing begin.
Theorize?? The episode was crazy and emotional as hell and the end of the show is near!!:eek:
I’ve got no great theories, only that the flashsideways-characters won’t get to the Island. There’s simply not enough time left.
^ Agreed. I really have no idea where we go from here. All I know is that even though I was a bit conflicted before, now I just want Smokey dead, dead, dead! Lock him in that big electromagnetic chamber, scatter his atoms to the four winds, and set off another Jughead to send that cursed Island to the bottom of the ocean.
At least we know that Desmond is still alive. Sayid told Jack that “he would be the one” (to replace Jacob?) and that he needed Desmond. Y’know, before he went boom. sniffle
Now that is what I’m talking about!
This is how a series is supposed to end. Breaking your heart, and kicking it the intensity.
Pretty dang happy with the episode. Sure was full of surprises. Mostly…
Had a wild thought when I first heard about the “Flash Sideways” device that this could allow the writers and actors one of the best dramatic cheats ever if they could pull it off. Any (or ALL) main characters could have dramatic emotional deaths, and also live happily ever after. After tonight I’m officially upgrading my “thought” to “theory” and going with ALL.
I now think we’re going to see everyone but Jack and Kate bite it on the island. That means Hurley, Sawyer, Ben & Claire (not positive about Des, his island fate could just be to be trapped there for eternity)
That means I also think we’re gonna see Kate & Jack die off island. (Maybe Kate crashes into Jack in another escape attempt?)
How’s a close-up of Jack’s dead eye being closed before his coffin closes for the last scene if LOST? Anyone else think Jack’s intentionally avoided (ex)wife is Juliet? A Jack/Kate funeral could bring all the other characters together. …and allow Sawyer to console a grieving Juliet over a coffee.
Now that Hurley remembers the island, I’m thinking he comes to Jinn and Sayid’s aid in financing legal representation. A case can be made, especially since Sayid saved Jin’s life, that Sayid killed in self defense. And the Keamy trail could lead the law to Mr. Paik, leaving Sun/Jin with the Paik fortune.
So…
Off island, Locke walks, Des gets Penny, Charlie gets Claire, Sawyer gets Juliet. Ben gets a little (self)respect, Sayid gets Nadia. Am I missing anyone?
And on Island Jack & Kate are resigned to their fate, and either Not-Locke or Desmond or Richard act as the counterpoint to the reincarnated Jacob.
Anyway, that’s my theory as of right now.
Thoughts?
There’s something in my eye. I think it might be a submarine.
I’m a robot. I didn’t feel anything for any of the deaths in this episode! I know I’m supposed to, but this is the first time on Lost I wasn’t even the least bit affected (emotionally, or in that OMG ARZT/ILENA just blew up! kind of way). And that is very troubling for me. Regardless of how I feel about the mythology/science-y stuff (which, yes, I do care a lot about), I can always count on Lost handling deaths with characters well, and for myself to care about these characters’ deaths. But this episode - Not a bit of “don’t kill her/him! Damn you!” or “huh, that’s interesting. I can understand why they need to kill this person off now.” It’s actually a bit startling to feel this way about a show that I’ve been so affected by in the past. Mostly I feel really annoyed (reasons I’d state later). I’ve felt like this was a pretty uneven season - some great highs and some great lows - but up til last night, I was still optimistic about the end. But now, I’m already bracing myself for a finale that I don’t think I’d like very much (even if it is 30 minutes longer!)
Man, I know I’m being all ranty rant here, but I will always love LOST, but this season is trying its best to make me not love it. I’m just wondering if anyone else felt this way too.
And am I the only person who’s still on Team Smokey? 
Seriously, I hate the fact that the writers have so pointedly and obviously made Smokey into a bad guy that I can’t help but root for him. I still don’t think he’s a bad guy. Sure, he’s on a killing rampage, but JACOB is the one who brought all these people here for Smokey to kill off so he could leave the island. At this point, I’m might actually feel a little happy should Smokey decide to kill everyone.
But, I did like the theme of choice, and the reveal that Smokey needs the candidates to kill each other (because he can’t) in order to leave. I liked the bomb scene where Jack realized this fact (and yet Sawyer still pulled the wire). Nicely done.
Anyway, why I was annoyed with the 'deaths:
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I cannot believe Kate didn’t die in this episode. DAMN!
Given how much I want her to be dead, my bets are she’s definitely one of the few surviving characters by the end of the show. -
SAYID. They killed off Sayid without ever explaining how he was resurrected, what it meant when he was ‘infected’, why his accent was all wonky, and why suddenly he’s not all empty eyed like he was since he was ‘reborn’. It’s almost like the writers took the easiest way out - ‘oh, there’s no way we can explain about all that resurrection stuff and infection stuff, so if we’d kill Sayid off now, it’ll be great!’ I did like that Sayid makes the choice to save the others, so in the end he is a ‘hero’ of sorts, but I don’t think that outweighs the fact that we spent a large portion of the season around the temple with Sayid’s resurrection as a huge theme, and now? Poof, he’s dead. It makes me feel like there was no need at all to drag that Temple story on for that long (instead, we could have had more Desmond! Or maybe something more sciencey to explain Widmore or Smokey or Jacob? Or heck, Ben, Richard and Miles, who have disappeared entirely in this episode.)
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JIN and SUN. If these two characters don’t have any importance (other than possibly one of them being a candidate - and now we don’t even know which one!) in this season (or, heck, for 2 seasons, these two characters didn’t have any real storyline short of “I want to find him/her!”), I almost wished they’d kill them off (or have them both leave the island and be happy or whatever) 2 seasons ago, where I would have been more affected if they both died. But them dying now - I’m like, oh, I guess kiiling them off makes sense because neither of them are that important (which also sucks. These two characters have been treated, especially in these last 2 seasons, as one character. They have the same flashback episode, they’re just one of the candidates, their character arcs are just about trying to find each other with no other connection to the others, and even here, I’m writing them as one character because they basically were (given their deaths didn’t change really anything, they have no particular importance for the island) Whatever happened to kickass Sun vowing to kill Ben with Widmore? Sun didn’t really do anything much this season at all, and Jin was just used to shuffle the plot along with the other groups - which is why he’s always kidnapped or something). But anyway, it makes me angry that I didn’t feel sad for them, because I actually like them in the show. Also upsetting is that Jin would actually choose to die with Sun instead of living so he’d have a chance of raising their child. Remember her? It’s obviously a tough choice, especially given they’ve been apart for far too long, but that is what parents do for their children - make a tough choice and not indulge in some ‘die together’ fantasy. It’s kind of appalling that neither Jin nor Sun thought of Ji Yeon in their death scene.
Another thing that took away from what should be a sad scene for me is the fact that their dying last words to each other…was in ENGLISH. (and having one line of Korean in that dialogue only pointed out how stupid that the rest of the conversation was in English to each other.) Sure, they’re both bilingual now, but … there’s not a doubt that they would be saying I love yous in Korean and not in English. Nuts.
- LAPIDUS. Whatever they had planned for this character in the shortened S4, we never saw it, so there was no reason at all why this character was even on the island this season. Again, if this is the last we’d see of Lapidus, then I wished he was never brought back this season.
So, given their deaths in this episode, I just find these character and their arcs to be ill fitting and not well conceived for the season if they’re dead now. It’s one thing for the show to be iffy on the science/mythology (since everyone wants different answers to different things and it’s almost but impossible to satisfy everyone), but it’s another when the show is iffy on its character arcs, which I think it has been for most of the season for a lot of the characters, and in particular in this episode, when a bunch of characters died ending their arcs that weren’t fully realized (or perhaps should not even have existed in this season at all).
And, no Desmond. Perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised that I didn’t like this episode - there wasn’t any Desmond!
BUT, I sure hope I’m proven completely and utterly wrong and I’m being a dick for being such a sourpuss and not believing in the power of the Darlton by the end of series though!
Sorry about the ranting again. I wish I wasn’t too! But, if you’re still reading this, thanks!
With regard to Sayid - I think there was more to his conversation with Desmond that we did not see. To me - when he came back from seeing Desmond he seemed different - more like the old Sayid. I think Desmond said something to him that made him have hope or something. I have no idea what that might be but - I guess my point is I didn’t see his actions in this episode as out of character because I had already assumed he didn’t kill Desmond (Des is WAY to important for that) and therefore he was not entirely lost. I was actually happy with his death (not that he died because I loved him) but that he proved he was a good person and died saving his friends.
Sun and Jin - the whole them speaking in English thing - Jin has been speaking primarliy English for the last 3+ years - it makes sense to me that he might fall more naturally into English since he likely wouldn’t have spoken any Korean while at the Dharma intiative. As for Sun - I don’t know but I give the writers a pass on this one - the scene is more affecting in English because the it’s the language of the viewers - seeing it and having them do subtitles the whole time just wouldn’t be as impactful to most viewers I think - sometimes you have to allow for RW decisions.
Wow! The finale is truly propelling forward, isn’t it? Starting with “The Last Recruit” and this episode, I feel the pull towards the end. ((Sob!))
I really enjoyed this episode, despite the death toll we fans were hit with this week.
RIP: Lapidus, Sayid, Jin and Sun. And yes, I cried.
–Lapidus - an Ilana-like death and a character I wish we had known more about;
–Sayid - nice to see a heroic end for a tragic character;
–Kwons - NOOOO!!! I am slightly troubled that Sun allowed Jin to stay with her instead of wanting him to live for Ji-Yeon. That said, it is fitting that they died together.
And the scene after they washed up on the beach (Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley) and grieved for Jin and Sun was touching and a tribute to those characters.
Obviously, MIB/fLocke needs there to be no candidate options left for him to achieve freedom. Two down, four to go.
Claire: She was never truly left behind at the end of S4, but twice, now they (Losties) were okay with leaving her behind. I do have to say, though, I thought she was going to be shot on the dock.
Ajira 316: Was they C4 from Ben/Richard/Miles or from Widmore? We know that was their plan, but who did rig the plane? (I ask because I wonder whether the trio is on Hydra or still on Teh Island).
Flash-sideways:
Great Anthony Cooper reveal and once again, Terry O’Quinn nails it in his talk with Jack about what happened on his first solo flight. Loved having Helen back and giggled when she hugged/kissed Dr. Shepard. Nice to see the Jack/Claire interaction and his offer for her to stay. Interesting, too, that the “Catch a Falling Star” tune didn’t mean anything to her.
Did Desmond’s attempts to enlighten/awaken Locke work? Between his mumblings in the hospital, the way he looked at Jin when they passed in the hospital halls and his conversations with Jack, makes one wonder. Unlike the others, his soul mate exists in the sideways world and what motivation would he have to turn away from it?
The Candidate: Are they telling us Locke was the true Candidate? I have to say, it seemed like Jack was being shoved down our throats. Now, I wonder if they are telling us its Locke.
And if the Candidate (Locke) is dead, is that important since there are others (Jack)? Or is it important that the body used by MIB to become embodied was John Locke?
And this means we get to be seeing Desmond again! Jack & Co must go retrieve “the Package”! (cue in bagpipes)
How the frak did they swim to the surface after the sub sunk? We never see how deep they are but if it was gonna take 5 minutes to surface, it would take longer for a human to swim than a sub methinks. I made a Shelly Winters joke during the frak party but seriously, how did Jack and Sawyer hold their breathe for that long? Besides, Sawyer was knocked out.
I know. I know. I’m nitpickin especially with everything that happened.
Personally, I would have stayed with Sun. Yeah I know, bad parent. But there is no guarantee that I would get off the Island anyway. Besides I’m a tragic romantic. 
Even more impressive that they could swim against the current of the in-washing water to exit the sub…
Regardless, it was another great episode.
Ajira 316: Was they C4 from Ben/Richard/Miles or from Widmore? We know that was their plan, but who did rig the plane? (I ask because I wonder whether the trio is on Hydra or still on Teh Island).
Good question. I wondered about that, too. I guessed it was Widmore at the time (and what a lovely bamboo staircase they built), but we know the Others had stocks of C4 as well. We do need a sitrep on Ben, Richard and Miles. I’m guessing if they’d tried to rig the plane, the guards would have already been dispatched and Smokey wouldn’t have had to deal with them.
All valid points, coco. I certainly wouldn’t accuse you of being a robot. (Quick, someone grab Baltar’s Cylon detector!) I agree too much time was spent at the Temple without really telling us why it was considered the only “safe place” on the Island. And they kept adding more characters, like the Widmorons, without exploring the ones they already had.
But y’know what, there’s only a few hours left and I’m on this ride till it ends. But still…sniffle
The whole time Jack was talking to Locke about repairing his spinal injury, my mind was to chattering about, “What if Jack fixes Locke and that Locke winds up on the beach in the first episode?” The final moments of the last episode would be the opening moments of the first episode, Jack waking up under the trees and Locke on the beach.
I know. I know. It’s far-fetched.
With LOST nothing is far-fetched.
I do find it interesting that they’re showing the pilot before the big finale.
I anticipate some “full circle” moments.
I won’t win any friends with this post… :eek:
I was somewhat bored with much of the episode. It was a lot more of the same…running through the forest with guns and sideways stories. I will say this last season of LOST is better than BSG’s last season in some ways, but it’s still been slow.
As for the big events…I’m glad to see Sun go. She was a one-note character that can be summed up with “Where’s Jin?”. She was too whiney and so it’s fitting she died crying. That scene was so typically network TV that I was left unaffected by it. There’s no way they’d be speaking to each other in English (a relatively new language for both of them), and I somehow doubt Jin would’ve died and left his child an orphan. And that brings me to my idea that maybe, just maybe Jin isn’t dead. S?omething about the way his floating hands went off screen made me think he was alive and leaving.
It wouldn’t be the craziest fan theory would it?
Like most, I’ve been assuming Smokey is using the castaways for something and has no altruistic motives towards them at all. In that way, we’ve been right. But now I see that he doesn’t need them alive to leave the island, but needs them dead to leave it.
I always liked Sayid, though I never understood why they chose an actor to play an Arab whose ethnic background was so clearly not Arab…but it’s network tv. Anyway, great actor and amiable character and I agree that it feels like his death leaves some things unexplained. I’m glad he’s still alive in the sideways stories.
Speaking of, yeah, what the heck is going to happen with that? In the sideways world the island is currently underwater so they can’t go there, but maybe they’ll all end up on a plane and crash onto the real Island. That’s a little much I think as we’ve already done that. But then I’ve been saying “been there/done that” through the whole sideways thing anyway.
I’m trying to trust that it is, indeed, that. But given that I have zero idea how they’re going to wrap this up (what’s going to be the frozen donkey wheel of The End?) and there are still so many loose threads to tie off, I’m getting worried.
Oh, I cried like a baby. Girlfriend came in and asked what was wrong, only to find me gibbering over the laptop.
I am ok with all the deaths that I have to deal with to get to the end of this journey except Desmond. He must live and go be with Penny… OR ELSE. Bagpipes away, but please, Des, find a way to live.
I don’t think I would have stayed. I am terrified of drowning. Plus, if I had a daughter I’d never met, I would have wanted to live.
At first I was really angry that the Kwons worked so hard at first to get away from one another, then to be together–and overcame their separation only to die. But I actually pretty quickly came to see that there is a certain beauty in that: Jin and Sun were not special. They were just average people drawn into a crazy situation. Their love was the defining achievement of their lives–which I think the writers signaled with the brief reappearance of Bernard (whose relationship with Rose was similarly the defining achievement of his life). And so reuniting really was the end of their character arc. Dying together makes sense, sad as it is for little Ji Yeon.
You know, I have to agree with you. This episode just didn’t do anything for me, except for Jin and Sun’s terribly scripted deaths (I am simply pretending that they spoke Korean since that was such a sour note). It made me worry, because after a slow start to the season, we were on a roll for a few eps. Ah well, I shall be both a woman of faith and a woman of science, and remain skeptically optimistic until the last 10 minutes.
Oh, does anyone else hold out a secret hope that Lapidus is somehow still alive? Since I’ve chosen not to be mad about the serious suspension of disbelief required to by the escape from the sub, I will be positively unmad if Frank has somehow survived. I feel like he still has a purpose that has yet to be fulfilled.
It looks like everyone’s life in the sideverse is pretty OK except for Locke, Kate, Jin and Sun and we’ve seen so far that now Sun and Jin are dead. Does this mean that everyone’s sideverse life reflects how they turn out on the island? Will John be killed by Sawyer for who his dad is? Will Kate die too?
Finally, who would like to speculate on how Sawyer finds Anthony Cooper?
I admit I forget a lot of details in LOST because I crammed the first 4 seasons into one month about a year and a half ago…but why would Sawyer need to find Anthony Cooper again?
He is responsible for pushing Sawyer’s father to kill his wife and then committing suicide.