Tom Skerritt and Kelly Preston make Space Camp a cool movie.
~Shooter Out
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
Great point. A movie that uses -ist characters well is able to put you in the place of the protagonist. Using -ism’s to allow your audience to empathize with your characters is storytelling at its best-IMO.
FYI - Kelly Preston makes things Hot not Cool. :groucho:
I like period pieces and I keep hearing good things about Mad Men. I think I’ll rent the DVDs someday, but I’ve been dragging my feet when it comes to watching it. Sean mentioned that the way the show portrayed women killed the entertainment value for him, and that’s why I haven’t watched the show myself, even though I find the premise interesting.
I think the reason that I’m hesitant is the same reason I stopped watching AMC: almost every single night I’d see a movie that portayed minorities or women in a way that made me want to put my fist through a wall. It’s funny, because the only movies I really enjoyed didn’t have any black people in them at all, because then I knew I wasn’t going to see or hear anything infuriating. Oddly enough, the worst offenders were the movies that tried to be progressive.
Oprah had the stars of Mad Men on her show and apparently Gayle is a big fan, so she played a small walk-on role as a secretary. She was so excited to be on the set with her favorite actors and she was just thrilled to get to wear a 60s-style costume. But the entire time I kept thinking, “Are you kidding me? Shouldn’t there be a mop in your hand?” It made me think about the clash that goes on when nostalgia butts heads with harsh reality—and how sometims the williing suspension of disbelief becomes difficult when an issue hits too close to home.
If only all movie reviews were like that:D
I’m chiming in a bit late here as i’m almost finished listening to tthe show now. The comments on racism made me think about sci fi fandom in general. I’ll admit that the majority of my experince is based in Ireland and the Uk (primarily Uk based) but I’ve been to fandom events in several countires and I’ve noticed a rather disturbing trend.
I annot imagine it’s consious racism but the sci fi fandom I’m am member of seems to be self selecting in relation to differing ethnic groups. I see very few coloured, hispanic or essentially other non WASPish people at the fandom, GWC being the obvious exception but the majority of people I encounter seem to be white and middle class.
I ponder if this is a self fulfilling prophecy, do people from minority groups feel they are so outnumbered by the white middle class ethnicity that they are not welcome, is it a choice thing I honestly don’t know but I’m worried that,despite our welcoming nature am I engaging in unconscious racism (note I say I, not we I don’t wish to speak for the community I am making genuine observations and expressing concern over what I see).
I may be overemphasising the point and reading in things which do not exist but the crue’s discussion of racism in the likes of smokey and the bandit brought it to the forfront of my mind.
Please comment, I am honestly takng the temperature of fandom on this one.
Alan
USian here. Fandom, at least the ‘showing up at cons’ faction, seems to be weighted towards white guys.
However, it’s relatively friendly to women, and they are often found in the organization/leadership roles. This dates back at least to early Trek fandom (e.g., D.C. Fontana and Bjo Trimble.)
It’s extremely friendly to handicapped individuals.
It’s also extremely friendly to people with non-normative sexual orientations (Furry jokes aside.)
Other minorities are welcomed, but interest seems to vary. It’s easy to find Asians, for example, but harder to find Blacks (who seem to end up in comic book fandom on a greater scale for some reason.)
Incidentally, part of the reason that there’s a stereotype of socially awkward fans (I keep wanting to type fen) is that they’re much more readily accepted in fandom.
(FWIW, I ran this past The (black, early Trekkie) GF and she agrees.)
I am a comic book fan but never been to a comic book fan con, I was saying what i said as an exploration of others reactions and see ifPike my perspective is skewed.
thank you, Pike for pointing out ways in which sci fi fandom includes, rahter than excludes and nicely counterpointing what I said.
Phaze
on the “I really should go upstairs and attempt sleep now, too late and too non sober for continued consciousness” ID
Other minorities are welcomed, but interest seems to vary. It’s easy to find Asians, for example, but harder to find Blacks (who seem to end up in comic book fandom on a greater scale for some reason.)
I have definitely seen this, but I have also noticed that with younger fans it is far less true. At the last convention I went to, I would say the majority of the fans were white overall, for fans under 18 say, I would guess there was not group that was a majority. It probably also has to do what people of different ages are interested in. Younger crowd = Animee, gaming. Older crowd = Science Fiction, fantasy, books. Just my 2 cents.
(I keep wanting to type fen)
You called? 
Regarding Madmen … Preach brother, preach 
I remember Smokey and the Bandit, mostly for Jerry Reed, his dog Fred, “Eastbound and Down” and the car … oh yes … the car. I recall seeing that flick in the movie theatre back in the day and they had the car in the lobby as a promotion. Yes they sure knew how to get butts in the seats back then
hehehe … QT sure has his own spin on things
"Let me tell you what ‘Like a Virgin’ is about … " Mr. Brown
Again, I think the internet plays a big role here. Being a marginalized minority of a marginalized minority is tough, whether you’re a low-income woman or a queer person of color or a D&D playing geek. But it’s a little easier when you can quickly connect to communities of like-minded folks online.
One other potential contributing factor is that there have been more and more women and people of color working and becoming renowned within the SFF entertainment field. There is something to be said for affinity–not that we all go wherever we see folks like us, but it can form the foundations of a sense of likemindedness that is necessary to develop a strong community.
I have the gut feeling that GWC exhibits this demographic trend, too: most of our 40+ folks are white males, but non-white, non-male folks have greater proportional representation the younger you get. I could be wrong, though. Just my vague impression.
First, a couple thoughts on my nostalgia and sci fi. One of the things I get nostalgic about was the sense of wonder and incredible optimism I had as a kid watching science fiction movies and TV shows. I also get a bit nostalgic about the degree to which I used my imagination then – drawing pictures of movie scenes, acting out new parts of the story, etc.
Second, I had a different take on Risky Business: “Do you hear a preponderance of bass, Joel?” That was a great scene in the beginning where his father chastises him for messing with the equalizer on his stereo. I was not a rich kid, but I related to the level to which Joel felt that he life was being determined by his parents and the expectations on him, and it was liberating to think that you could just say to hell with others’ expectations.
Incidentally, I think that relates to Mad Men, a show that I wholeheartedly endorse. One of the reasons I think Sean may have had trouble watching the show is his often discussed problems with authority. Everyone who is not a white male executive must bow down to their authority…but they are all waiting for their time. The African American characters are marginalized people, especially in the first season (1960), but by the fourth season (1964-5), the civil rights movement is making some headway. And even when they are holding mops and running the elevator, we the viewers can sense the degree to which they are restricted by the fear of losing their jobs. That is very unlike the Holiday Inn kind of portrayals of the happy shoe shines.
One note about Cannonball Run: the portrayal of environmentalists is not flattering either.
James T. Kirk would not gets his ass kicked in the Firefly 'verse. Ugh!
First of all, there is no Starfleet. Kirk now has no one to answer to, not that it mattered anyway. Kirk is a survivor. He would thrive on Serenity. With Kirk in command, the Serenity crew would be the richest bunch of misbehavers in the entire 'verse. Add Spock to mix and the entire Reaver issue would be solved in an episode.
To be honest, I always thot of Mal as Kirk without Starfleet.
Two words:
Top Tongue
That is all…
Vote for your favorite GWC Podcast #269 quote!
I’m sorry…I wholeheartedly disagree with the three of you in re: to Smokey and the Bandit/Cannonball Run and the racism/sexist undertones.
First of all…I think the racial tones of the Smokey and the Bandit movies were played more as a ‘don’t be this’ type of thing. It was played in such an ‘Archie Bunker’ sort of way that shone SERIOUS light on just how ‘off’ the character is. He was the 1970’s stereotypical small town sheriff…and he ate the role up. That isn’t to say that the n-bomb, or calling Sheriff Branford ‘Boy’ was ok…but look at the way that S&B handled the role of the black sheriff (Branford). He had probably the most eloquent vocabulary (“we’re apprised of the situation”, the fact that you are a sheriff isn’t germaine to the situation (Setting up the classic line “The God D*mned Germans got nothin to do with it”. )) of anyone else in the movie. In fact it could be said if anything the film was more racist toward white people than minorities as most of the characters (with the exception of Reynolds, Field, and Reed) were played 1-dimensional and in the case of law enforcement flat out stupid.
As to the greater conversation of misogyny that you spoke of during the cast. I am sorry but I find a lot of that unfounded too. While it’s apparent that there is misogyny in films and series…(with the idea that ‘sex sells’…) I think it’s a problem today when used in an exploitive manner…but (as in the case of Mad Men) when it’s used to accurately potray a period or TYPE of personality that if it wasn’t there would render the performance inaccurate…then that is something that we should aspire to hopefully to show that it’s a foreign concept and not something we should be looking to copy/emulate or aspire to.
Racism and Misogyny are wrong…but so are the reverse of those treated at men or other races as some sort of ‘recompense’ for those wrongs…if we start potraying all Southerners as racists, and all men as ‘wife beaters’…we’re the same as those who did the opposite in times past. Just my opinion.
It’s a tricky situation, because there is a layer of ‘your entire kind has been held back,’ which demands recompense. But the flipside is that the people in the majority population who aren’t part of the oligarchy are going to be the ones paying the price for that recompense. The senator’s daughter is getting into Harvard, regardless.
I couldn’t agree more. I don’t remember much about Cannonball run (except that it had Jackie Chan in it) but Smokey and the Bandit was not racist.
Yes it had racial under tones, but so does the world we live in. In fact I remember as a kid seeing the scene where Jerry Reed get’s his ass kicked by white bikers after which his black friend brings him his food and some words of comfort. I remember thinking “Wow the Snowman is cool bcause he’s not a racist”.
All the truckers (including women and minorities) joined together to “stick it to the man”. (whitey)
I agree that in historical portraits, it is wrong to try to “fix” the past. For me a case in point is the Mel Gibson movie “The Patriot,” which portrays slave owners and slaves as becoming pals by the end of the war. There might have been a few cases of that, but the history of the south after the Revolutionary War went in a very different direction than the movie suggests.
And I agree with the basic point that Cannonball and Smokey did not celebrate racism. Smokey, Snowman, and JJ dislike racists and are friends with African Americans. The movies portrayed racists like Sheriff Buford as ignorant. But I also think they were playing both sides just like Archie Bunker, who drew a lot of viewers who agreed with him. Having the lovable but curmudgeonly Jackie Gleason play Buford seems to make the racism more “acceptable” and light hearted.
Likewise, I would say that Jackie Chan and his partner are unfortunate Asian stereotypes. Chan being the martial arts guy and his partner being the science wiz. And they’re not terribly flattering portraits (then again neither are most of the characters in the movie but there is the question of who is the dominant group in society).
I am able to watch and enjoy these movies through a sort of “filter,” but I probably would not show them to children whose notions of difference are still forming.